The focus on this drives me crazy. So stupid.
The rest of 'em have religion for that. 
It may make you crazy but won’t it be necessary to make a federal case out of this? Or do you feel that the Feds shouldn’t be involved?
If the word wasn’t ‘coon,’ then how would the feds get involved?
I mean, it seems as though you’re suggesting that as long as there’s some hook by which we can create federal involvement, let’s use it, truth notwithstanding.
Or maybe I’m off base in that inference…?
Yes, you are off base. I was trying to explain why there has been so much focus on what was said. Not that there should be a federal case no matter what. If the word wasn’t coon, there can be no federal case. (I think, obviously IANAL.)
It seems obvious to me that the word wasn’t coon.
Aren’t there allegations that the SPD has some racial issues? And hasn’t the possibility been raised that the SPD’s investigation’s flaws may have been connected to all of that w/e it was?
There have been such allegations, but I’m unaware what any investigation of that would have to do with the the Martin case. The FBI is gathering information to determine whether or not a Federal case can be made against Zimmerman, not the question of whether or not the Sanford police fucked up their initial investigation.
I don’t have any attachment to the Feds being involved, all I want is to make sure that the incident is rigorously investigated and all the evidence put before the grand jury to determine if the case should be tried in court to make the final determination that it is a jury’s to make, insanely bad laws notwithstanding:
Did George Zimmerman legally defend himself against a reasonable belief that his life was threatened, or did his own behavior unreasonably and irresponsibly create the situation and/or did he unreasonably make the choice to shoot Martin, in which case he has committed a crime (Manslaughter or second degree murder or fill in the blank) and he has to suffer the consequences for it.
That’s all I want. If the state of Florida doesn’t seem capable of making this happen, I’m not sure on what legal basis the Feds would step in, but if the only route available to them is some kind of civil rights issue, it needs to be legitimate. Whether Zimmerman said “coon” hardly seems the issue upon which this question must turn, because I don’t think a private party in a situation like this is capable of violating someone’s civil rights.
The Sanford Police Department, on the other hand, is a different thing. If it can be shown that they were callously indifferent to what Zimmerman did as part of a pattern of disregard for citizens of color, well, then I think we have ourselves a sitcheeashun that needs addressin’.
Furthermore, I do not think Zimmerman is some raging white supremacist just itchin’ to bag hisself a nigger. I think he’s a fucking moron who wants to be a superhero and did a little not-so-unusual unfortunate and distasteful profiling.
The Federal government has indeed prosecuted individuals for killing other individuals based on the racial motivation of the killers. The articale refers to the “Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009”.
Here is an FBI bulletin decribing the intent of the law.
I know there are pther Federal laws regarding civil rights violations, but I too am unsure if they would apply to individuals.
I’m not so sure this next part really matters. I mean, sure it matters if he attacked or tried to physically detain Martin and directly led to Martin fighting back and the shooting. Outside of that I don’t much see the application.
What exactly is it you’re not sure “matters”? Everything matters. All the evidence matters. Examination of the evidence and all the possibilities must be considered and either rejected or adopted. In order to decide whether Zimmerman committed a crime in killing Trayvon Martin, everything must be carefully examined. It is from doing that that the question is answered.
Great except his girlfriend was listening to the conversation. We know who said what or some fascimile thereof. Martin asked why Zimmerman was following him and Zimmerman asked what he was doing in the neighborhood.
Rudely answering a question with a question. I would have punched him too.
How is that scenario inconsistent with the girlfriend’s account?
Because her account is, supposedly:
Martin: “Why are you following me?”
Zimmerman: “What are you doing here?”
… sounds of scuffle.
None of that extra dialog you added.
You forgot her conversation about Zimmerman stalking Martin. I’m it was just an oversight.
We’re talking about Blank Slate’s fantasy scenario posted above. Keep up.
The phone call ends, the noises could have been anything. I doubt whatever happened nex was wordless. What she interpreted as Martin being pushed may have been the rustling of him takiing out the headset.
To fit her narrative, he smirks and flips him off.
And then she heard pushing noises.
What is more likely?
A guy that is actively trying to avoid another guy, telling his girlfriend that he’s trying to get away from him, suddenly changes his mind and goes out of his way to be violent towards him?
Or a guy that is actively following another guy, believing the guy is a no-good punk who needs to be caught, makes a menacing gesture when confronting the guy and elicits a violent response from him?
Let’s see…
One of these guys has a history with violence and being overly confrontational.
One of these guys is carrying a gun to a Skittles fight.
One of these guys is bold enough to go following a suspected criminal in the darkness, alone.
One of these guys is 10 years older than the other and educated about the magical wiggle room afforded to gun-totin’ individuals, by law.
You can wait for all the facts and decide that we shouldn’t issue a judgment against either Martin or Zimmerman’s characters. What is unreasonable is playing the “They’re both to blame” game. As soon as you bring out Martin’s past to infer that he was responsible for his own death, it becomes fair to bring out Zimmerman’s history. Martin looks like a choir boy compared to Zimmerman. Those who choose to play this game in defense of Zimmerman will always lose.
I know. If it wasn’t in this situation, the phrasing “pushing noises” would be hilarious. What do “pushing noises” sound like? Are they different from “pulling noises”?