Honestly, the guy who initiates the conversation and is found sitting on the chest of the other inflicting injuries that are visible to the police and consistent with the testimony given.
One of these guys approached a larger person he was trying to get away from.
absolutely. I was the first one out of the box asking for a trial and I still am. But I think you’re looking at this completely one sided and with deep emotion. I’ve given my input as the information comes in. Zimmerman has already been tried in the media starting on day one with the pictures used, recordings, and the soundbites played. It was deliberately done. He’s getting hammered by professional rabble rousers who are at best poisoning the trial well. At worst they’re going to get someone (else) killed for no good reason.
What you don’t understand is the case is weak at this point. Zimmerman’s past is not admissible as well as Zimmerman’s. Both will continue to be investigated in the news. Emotions will continue to run high. If the twitter stuff is real than Martin is going to get raked through the coals and it will be Duke all over again.
those who defend Martin will be disappointed to the point of public unrest if the information given to the GJ does not warrant a trial.
I can’t lose in this debate. I don’t have a horse in the race. If Zimmerman started a fight that caused a death then fuck him. If Martin started a fight that got himself killed then he brought it on himself.
I was trying to figure out how long from the start of the 911 call until the shot was fired. (45 seconds BTW). If you add time for the callers to hear the commotion and call 911, I can’t really see the tussle taking less than 60 seconds.
I started play with the file in Audacity and cutting out the part after the gun shot and cutting out parts without screaming and amplifying the parts with screaming and cut it down to 15 seconds.
It may by just me but it sounds like two different people are screaming.
Magiver, I’m not any more biased or “emotional” about this than you. I have never painted Martin out to be an angel or Zimmerman out to be a criminal thug. That is the game that you have been playing lately.
Objectivity is waiting for all the facts and not viewing either Martin and Zimmerman through the prism of their pasts.
Anything else is going into the realm of biased speculating. I’m comfortable saying that there is no evidence that Martin did anything stupid in this situation–because I’m right. The only way you can twist what Martin did into something stupid is by applying hindsight. But there is evidence that Zimmerman did something stupid. He was following someone close enough for that person to know about it, and he was carrying a gun while rushing into something he had no business rushing into. If he hadn’t done these two things, we wouldn’t be talking about this. You can not indict Martin with anything similar, no matter how hard you try.
I don’t know. You already have cited a case in which someone acted irresponsible and yet was justified in using deadly force in defense of their life. As such, wouldn’t that remove irresponsible action from consideration in this case leaving the focus simply on how Martin responded and whether he could have actually posed a deadly threat to Zimmerman?
Really? All the possibilities? Even Bricker’s solicitation one? Or can we just skip past the most unlikely scenario’s and only revisit them if the more plausible doesn’t fit?
I’m not sure what you think I’m talking about. I’m talking about what a jury decides. I’m talking about a jury needing to decide what happened based on the evidence, then after they have decided what is most likely true, based on the evidence, they will decide according to the law whether Zimmerman acted in self-defense or if killing Martin was criminal.
Okay, so how do you know what happened next? You seem to take for granted that Martin then attacked Zimmerman - in fact, you’re now taking it for granted that Martin “approached” Zimmerman. Unless you are privy to evidence you’re not sharing with the group, you know neither of those things.
We do know for a fact that Zimmerman was following Martin at some point. That we’re sure of. How that leads to the conclusion that Martin was following Zimmerman and attacked him is not very clear.
Every day that Zimmerman walks free is an affront to justice. Even if you think the police are doing their job and conducting a quiet investigation, they need to speed it the fuck up and get this guy locked up or at least booked.
A week or two ago someone, possibly Bricker, mentioned that they were awaiting a Grand Jury indictment. Has that happened yet?
The Grand Jury meets on April 10th. Now - if the prosecutor decides she doesn’t have enough evidence to indict Zimmerman or if the Grand Jury decides not to indict - will that be an “affront to justice”? That kinda presupposes that you know who’s guilty already.
Why is the mere fact that Martin asked Zimmerman a question being spun as him starting the confrontation anyway? For all any of us know, Zimmerman could have been making a mad dash towards Martin when he asked him that question. Is running up on someone not being confrontational? The kid was asking Zimmerman to explain his behavior towards him, which was actually a very level-headed thing to do all things considered. It shows that he hadn’t jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was a homicidal maniac. Perhaps if he had jumped to that conclusion he would be alive today because he would have took off running sooner. He was probably giving Zimmerman the same benefit of the doubt that so many in this thread have.
Just like folks keep saying that we don’t know every detail in Zimmerman’s statement, the GF’s statement also hasn’t been released in full. It’s quite possible she heard more than what we’ve been let on.
Is that how it works? I didn’t think a jury searched for the truth, investigated evidence and evaluated behavior, etc. I’ve had no experience with jury trials so forgive my naiveté, but I assumed they simply evaluated the facts presented and determined whether or not they proved the states case beyond a reasonable doubt.
It is my opinion Zimmerman was in a struggle but was never in fear for his life and shot Martin in a heat of the moment act. Unintentional homicide at the very least.
However it is a fact we will (probably) never know what exactly transpired that night.
It is my opinion that not knowing means it is going to be extremely difficult to get any kind of conviction under the current self defense laws in Florida.
Some may be spinning it to make Martin look like the aggressor.
Others simply point to it to dispel the notion that Zimmerman was running up to him gun drawn and yelling “reach for the sky”.
The trouble with Martin’s girlfriend is that Crump had three weeks to coach her in her story before he trotted her out for the news media. At this point her story is actually pretty close to Zimmerman’s story when you discount the changes in dialog. A nice tight story that doesn’t conflict with any physical evidence Crump is aware of.
Her story would have been a lot more credible if she had come come forward the next day.
I don’t accept Zimmerman’s statements at face value either, but he had a lot less time to work on his lies and he doesn’t strike me as being all that bright.
Come forward to whom? The police closed the case and were not interested in witnesses that contradicted their conclusion. It wasn’t unitl this became a news story that the case was reopened and sent to the grand jury.
Based on what’s come out already, yes, I do presuppose I know who’s guilty already. Too many holes in Zimmerman’s story, plus the irregularities with the “investigation” that was done/not done puts this under more heavy scrutiny than a typical Grand Jury indictment. The lies, and yes I said LIES, that Zimmerman told about shooting him while being pummeled, with absolutely no blood on his body, the non-existent injuries to his head and nose, the way the cops didn’t do any toxicology on him immediately or how he wasn’t arrested and then they gave the excuse that because of the law, they couldn’t do that, all that smacks of some shady dealings. Unless I’m the only person not in on the joke, and everyone else is lying and all the evidence that’s come out is false, then there is no way Zimmerman should not be indicted. But I’ll wait until after the 10th to see what happens, I suppose
For all you know she tried to, but the cops didn’t answer the phone. I love how you frame the problem as though the delay in getting her statement is because of what she did or didn’t do.
The distinctions you’re drawing escape me, since juries are presented with evidence of all kinds, including lies told by witnesses, which hardly qualify as “facts”. Even including the truth as each witness understands it may not be consistent, so the jury has to decide what “the truth” most likely is and base their verdict on it.
Do you have a cite? As far as I know a case isn’t closed until the State Attorney says they aren’t going to press charges. It would be easy for her to call the Miami police and say was talking to Trayvon Martin on her cell phone just before he died. As far I know, the Sanford police finished their investigation at the crime scene the next day, but that is just step 1.
