Oh, I know that. Florida is fucked up beyond repair.
Would it make you feel better if i modified my position, and allowed Martin to be prosecuted for assault, had he survived? But that does not absolve Zimmerman of manslaughter, IMO. If Martin punches Zimmerman, and Zimmerman pulls a gun, he is guilty by escalating the severity of the altercation that he is ultimately responsible for initiating. If he has to choose between the risk of dying of a beating, or shooting Martin, I don’t see why that absolves him from legal responsibility for manslaughter. He stuck his nose into someone else’s business without justification; he can either risk whatever injuries the beating inflicts, or be prosecuted for manslaughter if he decides to pull the gun and kill Martin. In no way should we reward vigilante behavior just because he made sure the other party cannot testify against him.
Can you show an example of a law with any such exception? I’m not aware of any – the whole point of SYG laws is that you have no duty to retreat. I agree with you that exceptions might be a reasonable measure to make sure people don’t shoot first, but the laws seem written to require no more assessment than “this guy’s trying to hurt me”, regardless of who’s responsible for putting you in reach of each other.
A guy can still kill you even if they have a gunshot wound. Michael Myers has taught us this lesson repeatedly. So I’m wondering if a person can claim SYG if they shoot them once and then shoot 'em again, just to make sure.
You know, I always wonder about this “put him under arrest” demand. They took Zimmerman to the police station and interrogated him for five hours. If they arrested him, they would have taken him to the police station and interrogated him for five hours, then at some point after that he’d make bail and be out, just like he is now. What exactly is the difference to you?
Everything that was taken as evidence could be taken as evidence without the arrest.
Naw, I think he’s just stupid and arrogant. He thinks he can handle this himself. This move is exactly what one would expect from someone who prejudges a stranger in a dark hoodie as suspicious, sics the cops on them, ignores 911 advice not to follow this person, and shoots this person in the heat of the moment.
Dude isnt cracking under pressure. He cracked a long ss time ago. Probably congenitally.
I think they can fire twice but the second must be a headshot, per SYG’s “Zombie Resurrection Defense” clause. After all, the shooter doesn’t know if the shoot-ee will rise from the dead, and neither do you.
But we’re not handicapped (in this hypothetical) by the lack of Martin’s testimony; we know exactly what he’d say.
Sticking your nose into someone’s business by asking them what their business is does not mean that you must open yourself to a beating.
Let’s change my hypo. In Alternate Universe A, we had Zimmerman approach Martin, demand to know his business, and Martin respond by punching Zimmerman, knocking him down and beating on him, which attack is ended when Zimmerman shoots Martin.
Now in Alternate Universe B, again Zimmerman steps up and demands to know Martin’s business, and again Martin punches Zimmerman. This time, Zimmerman returns the punches, gets the upper hand, and the fight ends with Martin knocked unconscious.
Should Zimmerman be charged with anything in Alternate Universe B?
If you profile a stranger for no reason, and pursue him through the dark and rain while armed with a gun, you should have some expectation that a beating is a possible outcome. If the beating results, you have the option of running away like a girl (the better part of valor), fight back, or pull your gun. Only the first option should be consequence free. IMO, you started it by violating a person’s peace by actinig like an asshole.
He should be charged with assault. He initiated an intrusive contact without cause. And no, I don’t care if an intrusive contact is not illegal. If you violate someone’s peace for no reason, you should bear some responsibility if that contact goes sideways. MYOB.
Really? I lived in Florida for 28 years and that isn’t my recollection of how the law works in Florida at all. You read about some home owner killing a burglar and a couple months later you read the the DA isn’t pressing charges. No trial. I’ll google some links if you like. Maybe they do it differently in your state.
No, it’s not OK to hit people because you don’t like what they said. Surely your parents and teachers taught you this.
And bashing someone’s head into the cement repeatedly with no signs of stopping is a life threatening event. People are entitled to defend themselves in this situation.
Really, at least since the passage of FSA 776.032.
And your example doesn’t contradict it. If the police – or the DA – don’t find probable cause now, no trial. Before, the police could detain the shooter for questioning at the scene without probable cause and use the information to reach a decision. Nothing mandated they charge a shooter, so sure, a case could still end with no charges pressed. But under this law, the bar to reach before charging is far higher.
I also notice that the Special Prosecutor has decided to not call a Grand Jury. This must mean that Murder 1 is off the table. She sez she doesn’t trust the GJ- “too unpredictable”. Yeah, that democracy thing, just too damn unpredictable. :rolleyes:Now I feel that her decision on what charges to file will be based upon the public opinion polls, not the facts or evidence.
All of Team Zimmerman is doing everything they can to prevent that. Until then, an eyewitness is an eyewitness. Take it or leave it, but that goes for all the witnesses, including Zimmerman.
You don’t think the Sanford police wouldn’t have found some reason detain Zimmerman for questioning if he hadn’t gone with them voluntarily?
I was going to pull examples from prior to 2005 for examples. I suspect the problem is that you are reading the ordinances say and I’m reading what what the newspapers say. Since I already showed one case in Florida where the shooter was charged the next day, I don’t think the bar is as high as you think it is.
What is Team Zimmerman doing? I know, when Zimmerman went to meet with the “tough no nonsense” Prosecutor he brought cookies and now she’s not going to bring charges.:rolleyes:
Hey Bricker- do witnesses ever change their story once they have to repeat it under oath? How about under cross examination?
Do highly publicized cases like this change witness behavior? Do witnesses come forward who really weren’t that that much of a witness with testimony a lot like they heard on the media? Do good witnesses refuse to come forward due to fear or pressure? Do otherwise good witnesses get their testimony colored by what they hear/see in the media?:eek:
