LOL – the facts haven’t backfired. How do you know how accurate the records for detainees were, and how do you know they were so much more accurate than (for example) records showing black people being denied loans, or other such records? Even if they were more accurate, that isn’t an argument that it would be impossible to find out who should receive compensation for the wrongs towards black people.
And that’s exactly what I’m proposing – a discussion of what programs and actions are such that they may deserve compensation, and how they would be verified to a reasonable level of accuracy. Why is this so unreasonable to you?
Why it is unreasonable has already been brought up repeatedly by myself and others, so at this point your asking the same question yet again seems to be the equivalent of someone asking “Why? Why? Why? Why?” until they get the answer they want to hear.
You haven’t brought up any good reasons as to why this shouldn’t be discussed. You’ve failed to show why it’s not, at the very least, a reasonable point of view that those living black people who suffered due to deliberate government action and tolerance of bad actions deserve compensation.
Actually, most of us admit that African-Americans have suffered due to previous government action…but that isn’t the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is H.R. 40 and other proposed programs that seek to address this issue and whether programs like these are viable solutions. The reality is, H.R. 40 hasn’t passed for the last 25 years not because people don’t believe that African-Americans have suffered. It hasn’t passed because H.R. 40(and other compensation programs brought up here and elsewhere) just aren’t viable, and the many reasons they aren’t viable have been brought up repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere. Once again, you refuse to consider any answer that doesn’t give you what you want.
The HR 40 discussion lead into some related topics, based on Coates’ article. Have you read it, by the way? If so, what did you think?
I understand and agree that neither HR 40 nor reparations in general are politically viable, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m discussing the moral case for compensation of some sort, even if only for living people who have suffered under government action. I’m also interested in what forms such compensation might take. These are reasonable things to discuss.
You’re welcome.
Now let’s see if it is possible to recompense African-Americans for what has happened to them in the past. Instead of flinging the net far and wide, as an experiment let’s just focus on one single program that you think African-Americans should be recompensed for, which African-Americans should qualify, and how best to check to see if they qualify.
Your suggestion to focus on is…?
To start with, I suggest housing discrimination, which is the focus of Coates’ article. To check, we couldd start with self-reporting, correlated with mortgage records, address records, utility records, etc., and see what this tells us. Maybe there would be a lot of correlation, maybe not, but it’s a reasonable place to start.
There are no records when someone doesn’t get an apartment, and(as it has been said before in this thread) unless it is a very recent occurrence any records concerning refused mortgages etc. have been round-filed a long time ago.
edited to add: Any self-reporting about discrimination opens up a whole other can of worms, in that public accusations of discrimination will be looked at very closely by the accused lawyers.
Sorry-meant to say “accused’s”. If the government starts investigating to see if a certain mortgage company discriminated against African-Americans sometime in the past, that company will most assuredly contact their lawyers.
I don’t know. I don’t claim to have all the answers.
How do you know there are no records? There may be rent applications, mortgage applications, etc. And if there are no records, we can go by eyewitness testimony. There may not be sufficient evidence for some cases.
Good. I’m fine with stuff being looked at closely.
I’m asking you to pick a set number of years for the purpose of this experiment.
Again, the possibility of those records existing would depend on the number of years back you want to go with this experiment.
Again the viability of this would depend on how far back you want to go with this experiment. The farther back you go the less reliable the testimony.
Is that what you think will happen when the companies accused of discrimination get lawyered up? What I see happening is the court systems loaded with defamation of character law suits
I haven’t suggested that. I’m talking about whether this one experiment is viable, and how to do it without having it blow up in our faces.
Back to about 1970? Fine.
Did you want to look into both public and private housing?
All the sources I’ve found so far say that banks will keep records like that between three and seven years, and the same seems to hold true for mortgage companies.
Even if this is true, banks aren’t the only things that keep records. People often keep records too. And the IRS. And local governments. And the Census bureau. And many other organizations. In his genealogical research, my father has found residence records for some of our ancestors going back to the 18th century – the 60s shouldn’t be quite that difficult.
How could that be possible? Surely no court of law could ever consider a claim stemming from actions taken thirty or forty or sixty or a hundred years ago. All the records would have been destroyed, if they ever existed! It’s simply not practical!