I don’t really get what you mean. We are in a war against fascism in the US that didn’t begin with Trump, though he is the apotheosis of it. And we will need to continue to fight it even after he is gone.
Right, and I think he wants some sort of “legacy,” but he’s too ignorant and stupid to do anything that might work, tariffs being a good example of a dumb initiative.
But that works in their favor as well. The P2025 people are seeking to entirely replace the US government with their version. Step one of that plan is to demolish as much of the current government as they can. They got a free head start by winning the election, and have made a good start on neutering a lot of the government. But that effort may fail, if the courts and Congress get their shit together.
But a nice little war? That gives them leave to start just killing the people in the way, and they won’t care about the damage that does to the US as a nation, because damaging the US is their goal. A couple of years of chaos, and people will be much more open to a complete re-write of the Constitution, and the P2025 people think they’ll be the ones coming out on top, and doing that re-write.
No. I really can’t imagine modern Americans doing such a thing no matter how bad things get. They could open up death camps, and people would complain…and then just shuffle in through the gates to their death while blaming the Democrats.
(On whether courts can enforce their rulings)
For now, yes, But the giant budget bill that’s under study includes section 70302 to limit federal judges’ ability to hold government officials in contempt.
(details)
The thing is, if Trump dies or is deposed, that greatly hurts their cause. No one gives a rat’s ass about P2025 per se, but Deplorables do care about Trump.
I’m not convinced that any effort to demolish the government is “succeeding.” They’ve created chaos and probably killed a lot of people overseas by eliminating foreign aid. It’s bad. It’s ugly. But it is also tremendously bad PR and won’t ultimately help them.
I think the various actors have different goals. For example, is moron Pete Hegseth jazzed about Project 2025? I doubt it. Would he passively support it? Probably. Trump himself seems only to be indulging the effort, not actively driving it. These guys are not pulling together in harness.
The actual P2025 people are wingnut nerds that no one likes and no one sees as leaders. Like all nerds, they probably fantasize a lot–I’ll grant you that. (And no disrespect to nonviolent, nonfascist nerds intended. 
)
I don’t see genocidal intentions. These people want money and power. Even Hitler killed a pretty limited number of people before WWII began.
I saw that. It sounds like something the courts would be inclined to overturn, lol.
Also, I think Trump TACOs not so much because he fears what the courts themselves will do but because of public perception of his actions. Trump may not know what “crossing the Rubicon” means, but he does know by instinct that doing so will be a big deal.
And to kill everyone who isn’t an American white right wing Christian. And enslave women, but only because they can’t kill all women without going extinct themselves. The Right is dominated by white nationalists and evangelicals; the plutocrats who want money and power are a tiny minority.
To coin a phrase: Cite?
I loathe the Christian right, and since they stand for nothing including their own supposed “faith,” I think that, given the right circumstances, many of them would participate in genocide (as many Germans did). But I don’t think that’s their goal.
Enslaving women? Yeah, well, I’ll give you that one. 
[quote=“Aeschines, post:50, topic:1019533”]I loathe the Christian right, and since they stand for nothing including their own supposed “faith,” I think that, given the right circumstances, many of them would participate in genocide (as many Germans did). But I don’t think that’s their goal.
[/quote]
That’s been their goal for decades? End the world, go to paradise while the sinners burn, etc. Pence was a known believer in the End Times for a recent example. Reagan was notorious worldwide for his beliefs, for an earlier example.
They want omnicide, not mere genocide. The literal end of the world.
Not to belabor a point, but cite? There would be polling to demonstrate that such a desire is prevalent among the right in general and Christian nationalists in particular.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a large and idiotic demographic, but I don’t think it helps to misunderstand the enemy during a war.
I mean, just google “End Times”? Or “Rapture”? You’re basically asking for a cite that the sky is up.
Hoping that the world will end isn’t quite the same as planning to end the world.
Of course, those just hoping will be happy to sit back and watch the planners succeed.
The right is constantly smearing our side as being communist, and we engage in “cultural Marxism,” and all this crap. They don’t really want to understand how many of us believe exactly what; it’s easier for them not to know. I don’t want our side to fall into the same trap. If the right wants genocide to some extent, I want to know what the exact percentage is.
Even though I throw invective at Trump and his enablers, I never try to accuse them of doing what they are not doing or believing what they are not believing. I actually try to be fair and accurate. I think this is the best way to deal with even the worst people.
That doesn’t change that it’s been their national agenda for decades, shaping everything from their support for Israel to their hostility to the environment.
The fact that they will almost certainly come out of this badly isn’t going to help all the other people who are going to come out of this badly, some of whom already are harmed beyond repair.
The USA may also be already harmed, if not beyond long-term repair, beyond any repair most of us will see in our lifetimes.
The reason there were so many Jews in Germany in the first place was because Germany had for some time been one of the best, and apparently one of the safest, places in the world to be Jewish.
I will say this over and over and over, because apparently it needs to be said over and over and over: the lesson of the German Reich isn’t that there was something uniquely nasty about early 20th century Germany. The lesson is: if it could happen there, it can happen anywhere at all.
True. And my mother was clearly, to my recognition, in dementia for several years before the doctors treating her stopped saying she was just fine, nothing to worry about. And they had no particular political, financial, or group-membership reason for not being able to see the problem. Trump may keel over any minute, yes. Or he may keep on like this for many years.
They’re doing their damndest to get him there. Let’s not let him.
Saying it’s not possible is all too likely to encourage people to let him.
This is very much true.
And not only in the US.
Some of them are expecting the Apocalypse at any moment. And some of those are trying to help it along.
Not all of them, no. But when you talk about worrying about long-term consequences – do bear in mind that some of them aren’t expecting there to be any.
I agree. My OP was specifically about whether Trump could take total power, not about whether he will do immense harm. He already has.
IMO, modern governments are obsolete, but we humans don’t know what to do next. So I agree that the USA is beyond repair, but we would be there with or without Trump (I’d still prefer to do without the damage that he specifically is causing, of course).
Actually, my point was that there were not a lot of Jews in Germany, relatively speaking. Contrast Germany with Poland (per Gemini): " At the start of WWII in September 1939, approximately 3.3 to 3.5 million Jews lived in Poland. This constituted about 10% of the total Polish population and was the largest Jewish community in Europe at the time." This is why Hitler was able to kill millions of Jews: he invaded east.
I think Trumpism has borne this out, yes. Not so much genocide per se but the distortion of culture and the breakdown of past norms can happen much quicker than people think. I doubt anyone in the 1970s or 1980s would believe that Trumpism were possible. I doubt Trump himself at the time would believe it or really even approve of it (Trump was always toxic, but I do think he became meaner and crazier with age; watching the Trump of the 80s is like watching a totally different person).
Right. My mother didn’t have dementia, but she really changed a lot as she aged, and not for the better. I also saw her go from living by herself but falling a bit at the end of 2022 to being in “independent living” in May 2023 to being dead in February 2024 at the age of almost-but-not-quite-82. So not even a year and a half.
Based on his age alone, that statement is fair, but I try to look carefully and fairly at the issue and take in what expert opinions are available, and my as-objective-as-possible opinion is that Trump would be very lucky to make it to the end of 2026 as president. I mean, he absolutely should not be president right now, but his enablers are going to prop him up, patch him up, and ultimately do some “Biden hidin’” in order to make this regime last as long as possible.
I think the posters here tend to view such an opinion as some sort of wishful thinking, and therefore the opposite will necessarily happen. Trump’s gonna run for a third term! Umm, no fucking way.
I don’t think my assessment is the kind of thing to have that effect.
Right. All this shit is connected.
Yep. The Christian right is one of the biggest problems this country faces, and their toxicity will not end with Trump. The fight against them will be decades long.
Imagine that on Nov. 2, 2026 (that’s a Monday) Trump suddenly “discovers” an insurrection in 100 counties that all seem about to elect Democrats and sends National Guard troops to quell the riots and, coincidentally, discourage people from going out to vote. Suppose that in the meantime, SCOTUS has outlawed mail voting, since it didn’t exist in 1787.
hint: it’s not about eggs. It’s about how trickle-up capitalism has gutted the working class. And it’s about how equity feels like oppression to the privileged. And it’s about how people who can’t understand how and why their world became so shitty look for someone weaker to blame for it.