Well, this particular expression of faith was, in fact, inane crap. It is indeed idiocy to think that the finding of the book was supernatural event. That is my opinion, and I stand by it. I’m sorry if you are sick of people calling these things stupid, but tough. They ARE stupid. And I will say so if the mood strikes.
Well Revtim, I guess we’ve reached an impasse then. I can’t prove that finding the book was the result of the girl’s prayer. You can’t prove that it wasn’t. So instead of having a modicum of respect for a differing viewpoint on something regarding faith, you go ahead and call any idea that doesn’t agree with your worldview stupid and inane. And I’ll go ahead and call you a fucking arrogant, intolerant asshole.
I don’t need to prove anything to find idiocy here. Either the vastly more likely scenario that it wasn’t a miracle is true, and it’s dumb of her to believe so, or the vastly more unlikely scenario is true, and God’s an idiot. There’s no third possibility that is idiocy-free.
So, you have NEVER heard someone’s belief, and thought it stupid? You respect EVERY belief you ever heard? I was at a bookstore a few months ago, and there were these two authors discussing their book. They believed the Earth was hollow, Atlantis was off the coast of Florida populated by aliens, and various other things in that line. Do you respect these beliefs, and feel they are things that May Not Be Mocked? If not, then I’ll go ahead and call you goddamn hypocite. And if you do, then I’ll go ahead and call you a mush-headed shitbrained fuckwit. No third possibility here either.
… and don’t think I don’t, Chachi.
But seriously folks, that statement couple with …
… is horeshit, and you know it.
This thread notwithstanding – forget it ever existed – I walk up to you on the street and say, “My left testicle is God.”
You’re going to shake my hand, grasp me by the shoulders and say, “I respect your beliefs. Now go. Go in peace my brother.”?
Fuck no! You’re going to say, “Get the hell away from me you freak!”
You’d think I was deluded – and don’t you dare deny it.
Besides, if you respect my Testicular Deity theory, what’s wrong with my theory about the girl in the OP being a flippin’ nitwit for thinking some invisible guy put a book in her sock drawer? Especially as she considers that proof of something.
On the other hand, Jack Batty and His Devine Testicle will be the name of my next band.
Well, now there’s an excluded middle for ya. Hamlet, is it fair to take his reaction to one anecdote and then claim that he objects to everything he doesn’t agree with.
Append a ? to that, wouldja? Thanks.
I don’t see a problem with interpreting this as a ‘personal miracle’ - who exactly is harmed by it?
Sure though, it’s naive to try to use something like that to convince anyone of anything.
Interestingly, one of my most ‘real’ encounters with God was in connection with a lost object - there are only a couple of occasions that I can name where I have I actually experienced (what I believe to be) the spoken voice of God; one of them (most probably)saved my sister’s life, the other resulted in a sweater being returned to it’s owner… strange.
My God, does nobody read posts anymore? I’ll try and go slowly this time, so even Revtim can keep up. Maybe I’ll even use small words. As I said before:
Well, a Hollow Earth and the current whereabouts of an alien infested Atlantis would seem to be beliefs rather than a matter of faith. I’m not up on my geology, but I’ll go out on a limb saying that there is very strong proof that the Earth is not hollow, and that Atlantis is not off the coast of Florida. Then I said:
Contrary to Revtim assertion, I do, indeed, consider certain things when discussing a matter of faith. The Jack Batty’s Left Testicle movement, as I understand it has, has no sincerity, is not deeply held by anyone, is not so important to him, does not have a positive impact on him, and is not very reasonable. So if Jack came up to me on the street and told me his left testicle is God, I would definately not consider it a matter of faith. He could try and convince me otherwise, though, and I’d give him the opportunity without first calling him a dipshit. And I already think Jack is a freak, so it wouldn’t really change my mind much.
And I’ll even save you guys the trouble of doing it for me. Here you go:
Christian XXX’s faith that God answers prayers and takes action in her life.
Sincerity - Yep.
Deeply Held - Yep.
Important - Yep.
Positive Impact - Seems to me. As mentioned elsewhere, it doesn’t harm anybody.
Deals with - The way people look at the world.
Reasonable - WARNING, WARNING, WARNING
That’s what it boils down to. Revtim has reached the conclusion that it is completely unreasonable to believe in God. And he has such a lock on the truth, that it doesn’t enter his narrow-minded thought process that, although he can’t prove it wrong, that somebody may disagree with him and not be a complete idiot. Myself, I think faith in God is reasonable. I also think atheism is reasonable. With that in mind, I won’t immediately start mocking a faith I don’t necessarily agree with, and I find fault with those who do.
Reread my message to BlackKnight. Reread the above post. If you still don’t get it, I would venture to say that your “nitwit theory” is not sincere (you really want to condemn a person based on just the information in the OP?, is not deeply held (you just heard about her a couple days ago), isn’t that important in your life (I doubt your view on one person you don’t even know consumes you), it has a very negative impact and actually causes harm to people, deals only with how you get to feel superior for ripping down somebody else’s belief, and, is unreasonable. On the other hand, your faith (assuming you don’t really buy your left nut as God) is probably all those things. So I won’t call you an inane idiot for being an atheist. See, that whole respect thing going on there. You get it yet?
I’m not sure what you are asking, andros. My post you quoted referred directly to his actions in this thread. The girl had a differing viewpoint on a matter of faith, and he calls it stupid and inane. Does he do it all the time? Does he do it in all situations? I don’t know. And I’m really close to not caring. But his actions in this thread are what I was referring to. It was a poor choice of words on my part to use the term “any” idea. Once again, you rat bastard, you got me to apologize. Now buzz off and go worship Jack’s left nut. I hear the sacraments involved are quite interesting…and sticky.
Hamlet,** I never stated or even remotely implied that “it is completely unreasonable to believe in God.”** Surely you are not so completely and utterly dense that you actually think that either one must take the book-finding miracle by XXX in the OP as an unmockable faith, or all religious belief is unreasonable? You are actually such a roaring idiot that you see no middle ground?
For the record, I do not think that belief in God is unreasonable. I admit it’s even possible God is finding books for people. But what I really disagree with is you taking offense when someone states the obvious that in all probablility, she simply found the book without the help of the supernatural.
And equating that with the belief that all theism is unreasonable is gross distortion at best.
Be sure to ask about our baptism special.
Yes, it’s very obvious you don’t know. Here I am at nearly 2000 posts, and I finally find someone worthy of my first emoticon.
:wally
Congratulations.
I would say that a miracle would be something that could not have manifested without defying extreme circumstances and that would be rare and almost unbelievable. People find books they lose every day. They need no divine intervention to help them. St. Joseph of Cupertino flew around (if you follow the story), which, by itself, violates physics, meaning that one could not normally lift themselves into the air with no outside help and only faith.
Now, if Alanis Morisette appeared in a brilliant flash of light with a metatron announcing that the book was in the drawer where she put it, and when said book was removed, it hovered in the air bathed in golden light, I would consider that a miracle. But the idea that one needs or wants divine intervention to find a book in a room and that finding it constitutes a miracle is putting too much of the job on the Big G-Man. God helps those who help themselves! Retrace your steps, where was the last place you saw it, did you look in out of the way places, have you asked other people whether they have seen it, etc, would be the questions that I, as an omnipotent being, would implant in someone’s mind. That way they would be better prepared next time they lost my book.
Just a thought.
Just so I don’t misquote you, Revtim let’s review:
Gee, I really wonder where I got the impression that you thought her and her faith in God were unreasonable.
Great. So she has faith in the possible, that faith is reasonable, and it’s still inane and idiotic? Which side of the mouth is your next post going to be out of?
THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU FUCKING SAID!!! You said she was an idiotic bint who basis her faith completely on an inane reason. Holy shit man, read what you fucking posted.
Her Bible was in her sock drawer with her stockings and panties?
Hamlet, every fucking quote of mine in your last post was about the book incident, which I still say is a stupid reason to believe in God. ** I DID NOT SAY THAT “it is completely unreasonable to believe in God.” **
What the fuck is wrong with your brain that you MUST insist I said his or feel this way?
I give up. Go ahead and think I believe all belief in God is totally unreasonable. Have fun flaming me for something I don’t believe, never said, nor implied. Imbecile.
Jack, you officially have my vote for “Sick Bastard of 2002.”
Do you believe in creationism? Because there is also pretty strong proof that the earth is millions, not thousands, of years old, and that dinosaurs existed before man. Yet manny people believe, to the contrary, that mankind began in a garden and there never were any dinosaurs.
**
You go, Revtim.
I wonder about all the people in the WTC who spent their last minutes praying as they scrambled down the stairs, or jumped from the windows, or simply burned. They weren’t asking for time to reverse so the crashes didn’t happen, or for the buildings to restore themselves, or even for god’s hand to pluck them from the air after they jumped. They were just praying that they could get out alive. Or that falling would be less painful than burning. How is it that god had time to relocate this young lady’s bible, but not to spare 3000 people from a truly horrible death? Because finding the bible was easier?
No, wait, I get it: the only people who died in the WTC were the ones who didn’t pray! Or the ones who, for whatever reason, were on god’s shit list! And that would include everyone on all four planes, including the passengers on Flight 93, who intervened for the good of others, despite knowing that they themselves would still die. A truly Christian act, IMHuman and therefore humble O. But not enough to spare their lives. Guess they should have had a group prayer before saying “Let’s roll”. The people in the Pentagon didn’t have time to pray, because that crash happened so suddenly. But I’m sure god kept track of who, among the people who had time to get out, was praying, and who wasn’t.
Didn’t reply to these earlier; too busy reading:
**
Seems like someone who would think, not that her book had been on the dresser all along, but that god had put it there, would be able to rationalize with the best of them. She sounds like she has a very impressionable mind, and that’s really all you need to start with.
**
The group had been dangerous for a long time, but the members had to be indoctrinated into it. People who will believe what the person in the OP believes will believe a lot of things, if you start small and keep leading them.
And if they don’t know any other way. Which is the case with a lot of these bible families.
TO: Jehova Yaweh
CARE: Celestial Hotel (Suite #666)
Presidential Tier, Paradise
Dear God;
This is to inform you that your current position as diety is herewith terminated due to gross incompetence STOP Your check will be mailed STOP Please do not use me as a reference
Respectfully,
Malaclyse the Younger/ Omnibenevolent Polyfather of Virginity in Gold
POEE High Priest
Let’s first start with Jack Batty’s comment about this:
You don’t know me. You don’t know how I would react. And read the entirety of my post again.
Of course I would never personally accept the Left Testicle as Diety story myself. Privately, I’d think it was loopy. But if I feel that you are not bullshitting me when you tell me this (you aren’t pulling my leg) I will be polite. I will tell you, “I’m happy for you. Whatever floats your boat”, and I’ll keep on walking. Don’t believe me? I used to take the bus in the worst part of downtown L.A. every day, for years. (I also used to be a regular traveler on the Greyhound Bus…I don’t think I need to spell out to you what that’s like.) I’ve also met a whole lot of eccentric artsy-farsty types, some who believe things that are pretty amazing. I’ve heard a lot of things, and I’m always polite when I hear them. Why not be polite? Actually, I enjoy hearing crackpot theories, beliefs and stories. It’s interesting how creative the human mind can be. As long as the person is not twitching or wearing a tinfoil hat, who cares? Whoop-de-do.
Good grief. That’s your spin on her story. But that’s not how she saw it, or how many people would see it. It is not uncommon for Christians to think that “God was involved” in helping them in everyday things. Most Christians I know have related stories not unlike this girl’s story. The difference between them and the girl is that they are not naive enough to think that this will persuade an atheist of anything.
You seem completely unaware (or unwilling to acknowledge) that many Christians believe in “personal miracles”, and every day thank God for these little things. If the girl in the OP is loopy for believing that God helped her out, then so is a huge chunk of all Christiandom. So - are we all destined to fly planes into buildings now?
What? Where do you get that? How can you possibly discern that from one small story about this young girl?
I know A LOT of young, enthusiastic Christians, (and enthusiastic people of all stripes). They are a little clueless, sure. They get excited by all these little things. They almost invariably grow out of it. It is not uncommon for Christians of her maturity to behave the way she has, (and they go to their grave, all the time not being “dangerous”). So how do you know this girl holds any potential to be “dangerous”, any more than any other young, niave person? Or are all young and naive people “dangerous”?
I find it somewhat unsettling and dangerous that you are so quick to assume that a person is “dangerous”. Because why? Because you think they “might” do something? And why do you think this? Because they were a little silly and naive (like in the OP)?
Oh yeah. A LOT of people are dangerous. They “might” do something dangerous. And all Muslim-Americans “might” be terrorists. And all Japanese-Americans during the WWII era “might” be spies. And even though you know very little about them (like you know VERY little about this girl’s entire personality or history) you still want to consider them “dangerous”? How far do you want to take this?