Why I hate Apple (long)

[Absolute]

@guizot

But this is also exactly why Apple is so successful. They figured out long ago that the vast majority of consumer electronic device use is more for diversion than flexibility. So with each new device they zero in on the diversions they know most people want, and make them work really well. In the process, they eliminate some other more functional things.
Let’s face it: most people don’t want to do those things–most don’t even know how to. The vast majority of users just want to use social networking, watch videos, etc. As they said on the Onion–to “dick around.” (Which is not to say that you can’t do very functional things with Apple products–it’s just not their biggest selling point.)

Actually, my view is that most people who hate Apple and buy Android stuff do it because Apple doesn’t let them “dick around”. Most people just want to use their phone/tablet/etc. for something - whether it’s for business or pleasure. Apple realized this and created a line of products that do pretty much everything a normal person wants - be it email, word processing, playing games, or watching Youtube videos. The only people who object are those who consider tinkering with their phone/computer/etc. an enjoyable hobby. These people are upset that Apple devices don’t allow much flexibility for tinkering, and can’t be adjusted to work Exactly How I Want!

For instance, the OP who, instead of simply downloading the app Apple wrote to solve his exact problem, or just using iTunes synchronization (which can be done over WiFi), is stubbornly trying to figure out some way to manually transfer an MP3 file to his iPad without using any of the software Apple wrote for that exact purpose.

Apple figured out long ago that if you can make devices that do that effortlessly, and put it in a cool package, you can create a niche market with high cache value. And this has been the key to their success, and why they’ve become the highest-valued company on the market now. It’s their marketing innovation more than their technological innovation. (And Jobs really was at bottom a marketing genius more than anything.)

.
I’m always amazed when people consider ease-of-use a marketing innovation, rather than a technological one.

[sleestak]

@guizot

But this is also exactly why Apple is so successful. They figured out long ago that the vast majority of consumer electronic device use is more for diversion than flexibility. So with each new device they zero in on the diversions they know most people want, and make them work really well. In the process, they eliminate some other more functional things.

Post snipped.

This is why Apple sucks. Or at least another reason. The PC/Laptop/Tablet/Phone market is moving from device specific applications to a data delivery system*. The data is what matters, not the device and making it hard or impossible to access the data is stupid. My phone, PC and laptop are all used for recreation and work. When I get a tablet it will be used for both as well.

Content, whether it is a video, song or a spreadsheet is what matters and if the device makes accessing that content hard or impossible then it is badly designed. Period.

Apple is pretty. Apple is simple if you are doing what Apple wants. However, Apple sucks if you want any kind of control or if you want to do something Apple doesn’t want you to.

I hate Apple with a passion. They are turning their hardware into playthings that little to no useful value except to encourage you to by stuff from Apple. Apple is also way expensive and their support sucks. I mean it really sucks.

My fiancee had an IPhone. For some reason the phone decided to randomly play songs. The voice recognition would randomly hear something and launch a song. All the time. Wiped the phone and reloaded and that didn’t fix the problem. Contacted Apple support and we were told that the problem we were experiencing was impossible. Went to an Apple store and we were told the same thing until we demonstrated the problem. The Apple store response? Buy a new phone. The phone wasn’t damaged and had never been dropped or exposed to anything that might cause a problem. The solution? Buy another phone. Got her a Galaxy Note and she loves it, no problems whatsoever.

Then there is Apple and their war on wireless connections. Or at least Apple starting a war against wireless standards seems to be the only thing that makes sense. We have a wireless network at work. I am a network admin. Our marketing department decided to get some IPods to use as QR scanners. Marketing showed up with the IPods and wanted to get them on the network, which is another rant as they never asked us IT folks about it, but I digress.

To get my laptop on the wireless network I type in the SSID and the relevant security info. To get my android phone connected I do the same. Simple, easy and takes about 30 seconds.

We spent hours trying to get the IPods on the network. Fiddled with the damned things forever. We finally got them to work kinda sorta sometimes. We had the same issue getting IPads connected. They kinda sort work if you fuck with the damned things for a while. Then they randomly drop connection. Why? 'Cause they are Apple pieces of shit. My phones never have an issue. Nor does my laptop. Or the 30 or so wireless stations we have running. But IPods/IPads? The things are always dropping connections.

The only Apple device I have owned was an IPod. Thankfully my phone now handles that duty so I can bypass the Apple world entirely.

Slee

*The data is the only thing that matters. It has been that way forever but, due to the fact that you had to be at a terminal to access the data it wasn’t quite as big of an issue as it is now. Now you can access and manipulate the data from your PC/Mac, laptop, phone ,tv and tablet. The new standard will be data everywhere in the form you need it. Apple and the walled garden ain’t gonna fly.

[John_Mace]

@Gorsnak

God I hate this talking point.

Tablets and smartphones are computers. iOS and Android are both based on bloody Unix (by way of OpenBSD and Linux respectively). The only reason Apple doesn’t want you to think of your iOS device as a computer is so that you won’t complain that they lock down basic computer functionality on them.

Preach it, brother! My iPhone is cool for certain things, but it really sucks as an intuitive addition to my computing experience. And I have a MacBook, too.

[Llama_Llogophile]

@tomcar

Since the introduction of the Podcast app this year, it is expected to do most podcast transactions through the app.
Most Apple users will admit to limited functionality of podcasts in iTunes.
Hating Apple for a problem they have solved (with the new app) is just being difficult… But that is a you problem.

OK, I bit the bullet and answered the silly security questions. I already regret it. Apple’s podcast app seems to rectify the subscription problem, but there are two things that still suck.

First, it updates much later than the iTunes I have on my desktop. This may have nothing to do with it being a Windows environment. But the fact is I have several podcasts that updated DAYS AGO that still aren’t available on the iPad, even using the new app. Which means, I’m back to the problem of how to move a podcast over to the iPad if I want to listen to it there. So it’s either synching or getting yet another app like Dropbox since we seem to have established that Apple doesn’t like us to freely move files around.

Second problem is that (unless there’s a function I haven’t yet found, which is possible) it’s much harder to manage the podcasts. It asked me if I wanted to import the podcasts I already had on the iPad into the new app. Sure, I said. So I look inside one and it has a list of ALL available episodes with a blue dot next to the ones I’ve actually downloaded. iTunes on the Windows machine does the same thing when you first subscribe, but it’s easy to delete the ones you don’t want en masse. As far as I can tell, no can do on the iPad. You have to swipe and delete each one.

Someone please correct me if that capability is there and I just haven’t found it yet. But so far - this seems to still suck.

[Giraffe]

Get Downcast.

[Llama_Llogophile]

@Giraffe

Get Downcast.

Even if it’s a good app, I’m not inclined to pay for it ($1.99, I believe) in order to plug up the leak in Apple’s levee of bullshit. Technology moves quickly. With any luck, the app I need for work will become available on another device and I’ll happily unload the iPad on Craigslist.

It occurs to me that I feel the same way toward Apple as I do the Republican party. They’ve got a few decent ideas, but the absurd nonsense that they’ve bought into keeps me from taking them seriously. So I say to both: get rid of the bullshit and keep the rational ideas and then I’ll consider being a supporter.

Unfortunately, I’ve been saying that about the Republicans since the early 1980’s.

[Giraffe]

@Mach Tuck

Even if it’s a good app, I’m not inclined to pay for it ($1.99, I believe) in order to plug up the leak in Apple’s levee of bullshit.

Then you’re stupid. It’s two dollars. If you spend any time at all listening to podcasts, it will make your life a lot easier. You can set how and when podcasts are downloaded, how many episodes to save on a per-podcast basis, and skip ahead and back a custom amount during playback using screen swipe gestures.

Refusing to buy it out of some misguided principle would be like refusing to spent $2 on Microsoft Word because you feel Microsoft should have put all those features into Notepad.

Enjoy your pointless righteous indignation.

[jackdavinci]

@Mach Tuck

With the iTunes and music apps that come with the iPad or with another app? If there’s a way to subscribe to podcasts on the iPad itself without another app I wish you would tell me how.

I just search for the podcast I want in the itunes app, or the podcast app (store section), on the ipad, and then hit the subscribe button. If it’s a podcast that isn’t available in the itunes store, then I think you have to do it through the desktop itunes and then synch.

[PlainJain]

@Mach Tuck

Even if it’s a good app, I’m not inclined to pay for it ($1.99, I believe) in order to plug up the leak in Apple’s levee of bullshit. Technology moves quickly. With any luck, the app I need for work will become available on another device and I’ll happily unload the iPad on Craigslist.

I just figured it out. You hate the concept of Apple and you will bend over backward to make their products not work for you to justify your prejudice - just the opposite of your OP.

Hardly any modern system works the way your tortured Apple-hate tries rationalize. Want HBO with your cable service? Pay extra. Want extended warranty for your car? Pay extra. Really, you can’t pay two fucking dollars to make it all run smooth because you feel they should throw in all their tech on the front end for free? I agree with the long necked one - you’re stupid.

[Llama_Llogophile]

@PlainJain

I just figured it out. You hate the concept of Apple and you will bend over backward to make their products not work for you to justify your prejudice - just the opposite of your OP.

Hardly any modern system works the way your tortured Apple-hate tries rationalize. Want HBO with your cable service? Pay extra. Want extended warranty for your car? Pay extra. Really, you can’t pay two fucking dollars to make it all run smooth because you feel they should throw in all their tech on the front end for free? I agree with the long necked one - you’re stupid.

You seem to have me confused with a person who values your opinion. Frankly, I can’t imagine who would.

But responding to Giraffe, no it’s not like Microsoft and Notepad. It would be as if we were forced to use Notepad and had little other choice. I don’t have to buy Microsoft Word. There is Open Office, for example, which is free. Microsoft (who I can criticize a lot too) probably could make it much more difficult to use products like that, but they haven’t. Apple does. Don’t forget, my podcast situation stems from attempting to do something normal - move a common file type over to another device. When that wasn’t possible I tried the free app that was suggested. It doesn’t do a very good job, IMHO. The next suggestion is an app that costs a meager $2 which I’m not prepared to cough up because yes, it’s the principle of the thing.

It’s also true that part of my stubbornness (which I acknowledged in my OP) stems from not wanting to synch the iPad to my desktop computer. But I think there is good reason to believe that the need to synch is part of Apple’s overall plan for maintaining a very tight control on how things are done on their devices. As another poster said, I’m actually not that interested in the particulars - I just want to listen to a freakin’ podcast and Apple has made that rather difficult in some ways. I come from a Windows background, and for all its faults, it has a flexibility that I don’t see in the world of Apple. I find that annoying, but YMMV.

[Giraffe]

@Mach Tuck

But responding to Giraffe, no it’s not like Microsoft and Notepad. It would be as if we were forced to use Notepad and had little other choice. I don’t have to buy Microsoft Word. There is Open Office, for example, which is free. Microsoft (who I can criticize a lot too) probably could make it much more difficult to use products like that, but they haven’t. Apple does.

Que? Your argument is that the crappy free word processor Microsoft supplies with Windows is nothing like the crappy free podcast app Apple supplies with the iPad because there are two alternatives? There are probably two dozen podcast apps, at least some of which are free.

Don’t forget, my podcast situation stems from attempting to do something normal - move a common file type over to another device. When that wasn’t possible I tried the free app that was suggested. It doesn’t do a very good job, IMHO. The next suggestion is an app that costs a meager $2 which I’m not prepared to cough up because yes, it’s the principle of the thing.

I have no idea why you’re having such trouble moving files onto your iPad. I move tons of media onto mine without any problem whatsoever, none of it purchased from iTunes. I’ve purchased maybe two songs from the iTunes Store in my life. I buy most things from Amazon or rip them from DVD or CD. The only difficulty is having to use iTunes (which is somewhat sucky) vs. being able to simply navigate the file system directly, but that’s not much of a hardship.

It’s also true that part of my stubbornness (which I acknowledged in my OP) stems from not wanting to synch the iPad to my desktop computer. But I think there is good reason to believe that the need to synch is part of Apple’s overall plan for maintaining a very tight control on how things are done on their devices. As another poster said, I’m actually not that interested in the particulars - I just want to listen to a freakin’ podcast and Apple has made that rather difficult in some ways. I come from a Windows background, and for all its faults, it has a flexibility that I don’t see in the world of Apple. I find that annoying, but YMMV.

If you buy a sensible podcast program, you never have to sync to your computer – the app downloads it directly to your device, on whatever schedule you specify. You can also specify whether to only download when you’re on wifi, in case you’re on a fixed data plan.

Be stubborn and hate Apple all you want, I literally couldn’t care less. But since I recently transitioned from Droid to Apple on my podcast-listening device and have found the iOS options far superior, I feel fully qualified to say that you’re two dollars away from having all the complaints in your OP rendered irrelevant.

[Llama_Llogophile]

@Giraffe

The only difficulty is having to use iTunes (which is somewhat sucky) vs. being able to simply navigate the file system directly, but that’s not much of a hardship.

I disagree. I think it encapsulates everything that sucks about Apple.

But hey, maybe I just don’t get it because I grew up with Windows. Shrug

[sleestak]

@PlainJain

I just figured it out. You hate the concept of Apple and you will bend over backward to make their products not work for you to justify your prejudice - just the opposite of your OP.

Hardly any modern system works the way your tortured Apple-hate tries rationalize. Want HBO with your cable service? Pay extra. Want extended warranty for your car? Pay extra. Really, you can’t pay two fucking dollars to make it all run smooth because you feel they should throw in all their tech on the front end for free? I agree with the long necked one - you’re stupid.

This is bullshit. I run Windows and BSD at home and I do not pay for the vast majority of my software because there are free options out there. I use Open Office, Thunderbird and GIMP. The only software I buy are games and music recording software. Technically I could use free recording software but I prefer Pro Tools due to the hardware.

I hate Apple because I am a technically proficient adult who doesn’t want Steve Jobs ghost limiting what I can do.

The whole Apple ‘It Just Works’ line of bullshit is based upon limiting options. If you do what Apple wants, it works, until it doesn’t. When it doesn’t work you get shit for support. If you want to do something more, well, you are fucked. Not only that, according to the dumb ass Apple fanboys and girls, it is your fault if you want to step out of the little box designed by Apple.

Apple makes shiny, very expensive toys.

Slee

[kushiel]

…so instead of pitting Apple for designing their products to be used a certain way, why don’t we pit the people that go out and buy Apple products without checking to see if Apple’s way is compatible with their way?

I don’t get why Apple products are special in this regard on the Dope. We have no trouble making fun of people who don’t do their research before buying other products.

[friedo]

@sleestak

This is bullshit. I run Windows and BSD at home and I do not pay for the vast majority of my software because there are free options out there. I use Open Office, Thunderbird and GIMP. The only software I buy are games and music recording software. Technically I could use free recording software but I prefer Pro Tools due to the hardware.

I hate Apple because I am a technically proficient adult who doesn’t want Steve Jobs ghost limiting what I can do.

The whole Apple ‘It Just Works’ line of bullshit is based upon limiting options. If you do what Apple wants, it works, until it doesn’t. When it doesn’t work you get shit for support. If you want to do something more, well, you are fucked. Not only that, according to the dumb ass Apple fanboys and girls, it is your fault if you want to step out of the little box designed by Apple.

Apple makes shiny, very expensive toys.

Slee

You know that MacOS X is just BSD with shiny on top, right?

[Sleel]

Yep, don’t get what the problem is. If you don’t like the way Apple does things, you should buy something else. There are, apparently, Android tablets that will let you dick around with the guts as much as you want. Yeah, the build quality probably isn’t as good, and you might have to pay more for crappier hardware (or much less for much crappier hardware) but there are other tablets out there. Root 'em, install crashy beta software on 'em, go nuts.

Or, you could jailbreak your iDevice and do just about whatever you want with it. Technically savvy people seem to like doing this. It puts everything into a completely unsupported state, and probably is a huge security risk (considering that jailbreaking is voluntarily letting someone hack it) unless you really know what you’re doing, but you can do it. And Apple can’t stop you. They will, however, laugh and point if you expect them to fix anything wrong with it after you hack and bork it.

This basically comes down to the same disconnect there always is in these types of discussions: one group wants to do thing the way they want to do it, the other group looks at the desired end state and looks at what paths are established to reach that state. The first group is perennially frustrated, the second is frustrated only when they can’t find a good way to reach the goal state.

I have a friend who has spent a lot of time manually arranging his music files in nested folders. He was pissed when he imported stuff without unchecking the defaults and iTunes moved everything based on what tags were attached to the files (or in his case, misapplied or missing completely.) Me? I tag the damn things and let iTunes sort it out. I don’t even want to see the fucking file system. I’ve got 40 GB of music. I’m not about to spend the kind of time my friend did organizing all that shit. Filing, sorting, and retrieving information is what computers were made for. As long as I can find what I want and use it, I don’t care at all where it is.

Lately, I don’t even bother filing anything on OS X. I stole ideas from a couple of smart computer guys and use Tags (built on OpenMeta) to tag files, Hazel to move files automatically based on tags and other criteria, and Spotlight or Quicksilver to find everything. Takes me a few keystrokes and about 5 seconds to find and open anything on my computer. As far as I’m concerned, the file system isn’t even there. Couldn’t give a shit about where the files are.

IMO, besides the obvious reasons of sandboxing and security, Apple is trying to train people to get rid of thinking about the file system by not even allowing you to access it directly. I don’t think they’ve got everything worked out yet, so I’m definitely not going to say that there aren’t annoyances in iOS. But, there are very few things that I’ve tried to do that I absolutely can’t do. On the other hand, I’m a goal-oriented person, not a process-oriented one, so I don’t bang my head against the wall trying to do something that isn’t possible within the limitations of the platform.

[Steophan]

@Sleel

Apple is trying to train people

Yep, and that’s why we hate them. They should not be telling people what they should or shouldn’t be doing on their hardware.

[tagos]

@Pitchmeister

The OP is trying not to download an app, since that would require him to put answers to security questions in Apples hands. If he could get an app, Apples own podcast app would do the trick just fine.

Well, he shouldn’t own an ipad then as apps are pretty much the reason they exist.

Downcast is a great podcast app.

[amanset]

Just a few comments.

@Mach Tuck

I got an iPad a few months ago. It’s for work, and there’s one app I have to use and keep updated. But I can also use it for other stuff, and I like to listen to podcasts. Here is the step-by-step issue I had today that crystallizes why I think Apple sucks donkey dick. Although, part of it is I’m also a stubborn ass.

1. I have always downloaded podcasts from iTunes on my Windows desktop computer. It works fairly well except for a few bad bits of programming (Um, Apple… Just because I haven’t listened to a particular podcast lately doesn’t mean I want you to AUTOMATICALLY stop downloading it! I use iTunes because I WANT it to automatically download podcasts so I DON’T have to do it manually.)

This only happens with some of my podcasts. I think the problem is that if a podcast’s RSS feed stops responding iTunes stops checking it in the future. Yes, bad design, but it’d help if RSS feeds were always working.

@Mach Tuck

2. The system for podcasts on the iPad really stinks. Unlike on the desktop, you have to use the iPad version of iTunes to download, and then listen to them with another application. Said application will NOT subscribe to podcasts, so if you have to either do it manually or synch with your desktop computer.

I don’t have my iPad to hand,but isn’t the iPad like the iPhone, where there is a “Podcasts” app? I can start the app, click on “Store” and the app then opens the Podcasts section of the store. From there I can click on “subscribe” (or indeed “unsubscribe”) to subscribe to a new Podcast. Alternatively, from there you can download individual episodes (by clickign on the arrow to the side of the episode name). Then you can click “Library” to go back to the your Podcasts and play what you want.

There is no need to use an “iTunes” app. Everythign is done from within “Podcasts”.

@Mach Tuck

3. Many podcasts update differently between the desktop and iPad versions of iTunes. Often, one will appear on my desktop computer and not appear on the list on the iPad for a day or more. This happened today with Slate’s Political Gabfest.

Most likely a problem with the RSS feeds and how often your application updates them.

@Mach Tuck

5. I wish to do this without synching. Why? Because fuck Apple, that’s why. I don’t want to get out the wire (or do it by WiFi) because it’s a nuisance, and I’d just as soon not have them get all my browsing information anyway, which it does when it synchs.

You can. I just tested it on my phone. All from within the Podcasts app.

@Mach Tuck

6. I can access the podcast file as an MP3 on my desktop computer because there is a file system which actually allows me to access files. I like that. It’s why I will never buy an Apple as a primary computer. Problem is, the file is over 25mb, so I can’t email it to myself.

That’s just bizarre. You are aware that Macs are exactly the same?

@Mach Tuck

7. Aha, I think! I’ll use Sendspace and then download it. Nope. Apple won’t allow such a thing to happen on the iPad. “Unable to download”, it tells me politely. Suck goat cock, I tell it.

Just use the Podcasts app.

@Mach Tuck

8. My options now are to split the file into smaller MP3s that I can email to myself, or transform it into a video file which I would then upload to YouTube and then play on the iPad.

Or just use the “Podcasts” app.

@Mach Tuck

9. Only problem with the YouTube option is that the Apple fucks with the search results in YouTube. Ever notice that you don’t get the same results from a search on the iPad vs. desktop? It’s true. Occasionally I’ll email myself a link to get around this, only to find that particular video won’t play on the iPad. Why? Because Apple is a bunch of goat felching control freaks.

Most likely Google is at fault there (they own YouTube). You get different results from a Google web search depending on all sorts of parameters.

@Mach Tuck

I could download a different app for podcasts, I suppose. But I don’t want to accede to Apple’s demand that I answer their new security questions. And I can’t jailbreak it because of the app I need for work.

“Podcasts” does what you want it to do. I just tried it on my phone.

@Mach Tuck

My friends tell me my problems with Apple products stem from the fact that I know how to use a computer. They say Apple designed their system to be used by people who don’t, and therefore won’t notice the restrictions that give me fits.

I know how to use a computer too (I have a Masters in Software Engineering and have worked in IT since 1997). Amazingly I don’t have an issue, I just know how to use the right tool for the right job. I own Macs, Windows and Linux-based machines. It all seems pretty much the same to me, you just have to learn the specific hoops that the apps on each OS that it wants you to jump through. They all have hoops.

@Mach Tuck

Frankly, I don’t care. I’ll never be an Apple convert as long as they use this ridiculous file system, restrict access to things and otherwise prevent me from conducting what should be simple operations. I’m also pitching the iPad out a fucking window the minute I don’t need it for work.

As someone else said (and then someone got annoyed at), an iPad is NOT the same as a desktop computer. It may be a computer underneath, but then again so is my cable box. I won’t, however, be trying to use my cable box for all computing-related tasks. The same with an iPad, it is a computing device specifically designed for a subset of computing tasks.

@Mach Tuck

Fuck Apple.

Believe me, they screw up a lot of things. They also do a lot of things better than anyone else. You could also do with trying to use the proper app for what you are trying to do.

‎Apple Podcasts

[Nonsuch]

Last year, our marketing department developed an iPad app, and so IT procured us a new iPad for testing purposes. But it took days for it to make its way to us, because our IT department insisted on finding a way to use it without iTunes. Needless to say, they did not have much success.

iOS devices are designed to be synced with a computer. You can argue the whys and wherefores of that decision, but Apple doesn’t make a secret of it, and the moment you decide that that limitation is too restrictive for you, you consign yourself to a second-rate experience.