Why is a Gay themed magazine Offensive?

Great Debates
41

Dreamer, you’re right about religious condemnation in other countries (which also sucks), but the OP’s problem is here in the U.S. In some other countries, his sexual orientation wouldn’t be an issue. But his problem is with the company he works for and the people he works with. And in Texas, where intolerance has made some pretty ugly headlines in recent years.

Now, I would be highly offended if someone left Chick Tracts laying around in the lunch room, but if there was some other publication with a religious theme that wasn’t dissing half the world, I would have no complaints. (I might not read it, but it wouldn’t offend me if it was there.)

42

I’ve never seen a copy of the Advocate, and the only thing I ever heard that was objectionable in it was the ads in the back. (John Rechy mentions this in his book The Sexual Outlaw. )

For the purposes of the discussion, I am willing to identify it as a unoffensive magazine and not offensively salacious. So in answer to the original question, a gay-themed magazine in and of itself is not offensive.

I do find it curious that people are claiming that a gay-themed magazine entitled The Advocate is not really advocating anything.

The basic question remains. Would Homebrew find some unsalacious, well-produced magazine pushing some agenda to be offensive? How much right does a co-worker have to force the attention of his fellows to some part of his personal life that others find disagreeable?

AceOSpades apparently would find no problem with such a magazine, providing it advocated something to which he did not object. Homebrew mentioned other religious magazines in the area where he left his copy, and he did not object to or try to have removed any of those, so apparently he believes in the free market place of ideas.

And gobear? Well, gobear posts:

Actually, this is what I am doing.

There are all sorts of things about my co-workers I don’t care to discuss. I have no more interest in their sex lives if they are gay than if they are straight, and some of their political and social opinions range from the unformed to the frankly offensive. But since I have to get along with them well enough to work together, I don’t pick fights with them. In return, I ask that they do the same.

A fanatic is someone who can’t change his mind, and won’t change the subject. If we can’t agree to disagree, then we both have to agree to shut up about it. But I have reached an age and a position where I no more have to put up with lip from someone with an attitude than they do from me.

No, I don’t mean you. It would be silly for me to come to a messageboard and ask that nobody disagree with me. I like arguing over the Internet - call me crazy. In the workplace, however, I reserve the right to hold up my hand and say “TMI”.

I would hardly classify the desire to say “Let’s drop the subject” as “unfettered license” to do anything. Obviously, YMMV.

Regards,
Shodan

43

OK, as long as you apply your rule equally to heterosexuals. Frankly, if you think discussing vacation plans, social events, and general chit chat about outings with the spouse as TMI (“Steve and I went antiqueing in Provincetown.” “TMI! Keep it in the bedroom.”), I can’t imagine you 're very popular at work.

Relationships and romance are about much more than sex, and if you haven’t figured that out by now, I pity you.

44

I don’t see anyone here arguing for the right to tell you all about the intimate details of their sex lives, Shodan. Nobody wants to do that. You can stop arguing against it.

What I’d like, in my ideal world, is to be able to bring up the fact that my boyfriend and I just spent the weekend redecorating our bedroom, in a nice kind of modernized British Colonial theme this past weekend, in casual conversation with workplace friends. We put a lot of work into it, learned how to sew in the process, and had a blast doing it; I’d like to be able to talk about it when people ask me what I did this weekend.

That’s what The Advocate is advocating. Not that we get to share more details of our lives than heterosexuals do. That we should be able to share the same sort of details about our lives, and not have to fear retribution for it.

When I bring up my boyfriend in conversation, it’s not a political statement. It’s not advocating anything. It’s just that I love him, I spend most of my time with him, I’m proud of what we accomplish together, I love the funny things he says, and that’s what I most want to talk about. Why should that be objectionable to bring up, when straight people talk about those things regularly?

You’re proud of your martial arts experiences, judging by your username. What if the people in your workplace found your martial arts training repulsive, and they objected to the violence involved in it? What if they objected to the point where you no longer felt free to talk about the experiences you’ve had in classes, or to display awards you’d won, or pictures of yourself in your gi? What if leaving a martial arts magazine around the office was considered controversial? What if all this was based on a misconception of what martial arts was all about; what if people thought you just liked to beat people up?

Can you see why we’d like to be out of that closet?

45

Does this tree have any fruits?

Marc

I’m sorry. I had to ask.

46

“Modernized British Colonial?!” You sick perverts . . .

47

Either you have misunderstood me or mistaken me for another poster. I said as long as it didn’t prosletyze, wasn’t mandatory, and wasn’t pictorally offensive from afar, I wouldn’t have a problem with it, regardless of the content.

48

That’s pretty much what I said (before my post was so rudely eaten by these damn hamsters). It sounds like Shodan gets creeped out if the conversation gets too “gay”, i.e., drapery rods and fabrics [Christopher Lowell/on] "The fabrics aren’t working, daaaaarling! Someone fluff those pillows!!! [Christopher Lowell/off]. Well, if I have to listen to my husband and his buddies talk about the friggin’ brake lines on the hot rod one more time, I’m gonna…

You see, general conversation does not fall into the TMI category, whether it sounds too gay to you or not. It is considered general conversation, even if it doesn’t interest you.

49

I missed this earlier: Gobear, I didn’t see this at all. Shodan had admitted to being uncomfortable around gay discussions of sexuality, and that discomfort colours his emotions around any gay discussion. Does he have a problem with Straight sexual discussions? Could he discuss Gay sex at a party? He doesn’t say, and therefore I don’t see by what you come by your over-the-top insult of “homophobes like you.”

Discomfort is not hate – Shodan admits his discomfort on a board to fight ignorance, and it seems you’d rather castigate than educate.

50

If that’s what you’re actually contemplating as a decorating scheme you need to go back in and find some better design ideas behind the umbrellas or under the hatbox.

51

Hey, lay off the modernized British colonial theme. It looks spiffy. We’re gay, we’re decorating, we can do no wrong.

52

MrVisible -

Your own example of how I might be unwise to discuss my background in martial arts means that I am in the same sort of “closet” as gays. Some people could, and some do, disapprove of aspects of my private life. So I don’t insist on discussing them. I don’t leave martial arts magazines lying around the break room as an experiment, to relate all this back to the OP.

I think the principle I want to hold to is not to prevent you from talking about your boyfriend or the clever things he says or whatever. My take on Homebrew’s OP was and remains that he was doing experiments on his co-workers to try to find out a) who was gay, and b) who were the homophobes. And my position is that if neither group wanted him to know who they were, it might not be a good idea to force the issue. For lots of reasons.

If you are just doing it to make conversation, and not to push an agenda, I can choose whether or not to participate, gay or straight, depending on the topic and my own comfort level. If you are trying to get in my face to enlighten the nasty old fossil, it probably isn’t going to turn out well.

[QUOTE}Relationships and romance are about much more than sex.[/QUOTE]
Funny - when my wife says that, she is trying to sound reassuring. :wink:

Regards,
Shodan

53

Umm… never mind MrVisible, I was just teasing, I see now that you have completed this modernized British Colonial project. Wicker in the bedroom is as elegant as… well… as elegant as it wants to be. Yeah that’s it, that’s the ticket!

54

I thought we were all clear that we’re not talking about sexuality, but basic relationship stuff. Shopping, adopting, decorating, vacations, or even whining about being ignored by the spouse at a party, and all the other mundane stuff people talk about IN REFERENCE TO THEIR SPOUSE are general office chit-chat subjects. A gay person shouldn’t have to feel uncomfortable mentioning it. Nor should he or she feel uncomfortable saying they went to a gay pride rally over the weekend, or that they work part time for a gay newspaper. Everyone else talks about what they did over the weekend, and nobody gives it a second thought.

55

I wouldn’t exactly call Homebrew’s actions “experimental”, but rather, he was trying to get the lay of the land. I mean, it’s not like he can come right out and ask without possibly jeopardizing his job. I think the magazine tactic was a good way to learn where he stands at work, and also gives people a chance to learn about gay issues and that gays aren’t just preoccupied with sex.

56

I might be the odd man out here but I can’t understand why people are willing to speak so much about their personal lives at the office. I would never speak about something intimate like my spouse ignoring me or trying to adopt a child with my coworkers. Though I would feel comfortable talking about shopping, decorating, or where I think I want to go on vacation.

Marc

57

That’s your choice. As it should be.

And whether you choose to listen is your choice as well.

And what I discuss about my private life should, to a point, be my choice. The point at which it becomes inappropriate should be the same for everyone, regardless of the genders of the people involved.

Nobody would object to a copy of Bride Week Monthly, or Maxim, GQ, or Seventeen magazine being left in the breakroom, despite their being aimed at specific demographics. Why should The Advocate be any different? Bridal magazines, after all, push a very heavy agenda of heterosexual marriage.

Leaving a magazine lying around is not ‘getting in your face’ and ‘pushing an agenda.’ It may well be ‘testing the waters’ and ‘gaguing reaction.’ But outrageous, it’s not.

And… wicker? You think we’d put wicker in the bedroom? Good heavens. No, we’re gay: we’re allowed to take whatever liberties we like with our themes. Comes with the genes, you know.

58

Same here. Men rarely blab it up regarding really personal issues like adoption or hurt feelings, although some willl expound on their politics as nauseum. This deep inter-personal sharing stuff is more of a “woman talk” thing.

59

Nobody would object (well, I bet someone would) to a a copy of Bride Week because heterosexual marriage is the norm.

The vast majority of society is straight. So simply playing to the odds, putting a copy of GQ or Brides Week out will not ruffle feathers.

While I do not think that gay people should be persecuted in any way, not having a gay-themed magazine in the workplace is NOT persecution.
Gay people should have equal rights under the law But that in no way translates to acceptance by society. People come up with their own feeling towards gay people independent of any laws.

And I don’t see why so many people feel the need to pimp the fact that they are gay. I don’t go on about my sexuality; Why do some people feel the need to go on about theirs?

60

I think the reason they feel the need to tell others is because it *isn’t *accepted by society as a whole and to avoid negative reactions maybe it’s just easier to get it out and find out who cares and who doesn’t. That way in future conversations you know who you can discuss it with and who is uncomfortable with it.