elucidator, one might look up the word “homophobe” before assuming it only means what its etymology would presume it to mean.
Not a slam, just a fact, dear.
Esprix
elucidator, I don’t think that reaction is uncommon. To be honest, I’ve gotten a bit squeamish watching straight porn. It just seems wrong to me, you know?
“I mean, they’re not a pair. A man and a man, that’s a pair. A woman and a woman, that’s a pair. A man and a woman, they don’t match, what do you get in poker for two things that don’t match? Absolutely nothing, but two kings and three queens, man, that’s a full house!” - Maggie Cassella
Kirkland said, “Yes. Remember the story of the Good Samaritan? Be careful who you condemn just for being who they are, FOR BEING SOMETHING THEY NEVER CHOSE TO BE.” (caps mine)
Now this is something that’s always bugged the crap outta me. What if someone DID choose to be gay (not that I would in THIS country/world). So big deal…people make choices all the time, including sexual choices. We choose to do it missionary or standing up, straight and sweet or with whips and chains, in bed or in the car, etc. Since when is it necessarily a bad thing to make a choice? I’m just saying that I don’t find it necessary to defend gays because they were born that way (almost sounds like a birth defect). They’re gay. Period. It shouldn’t matter if they chose gay or were born gay. It’s not hurting anyone.
Get thee down with thine abhorrent self, EchoKitty. 
Esprix
I’m not saying it would be bad that its a choice. People choose their religion, for isntance, and its still a protected right and they cannot be punished, theoretically, for picking the wrong religion.
But I think it is particularly galling to mistreat people for something they had no choice in.
Criminey! I hope I don’t burn in heck! Gay by choice! What the heck was I thinkin’???
Kirkland, I understand your point and agree. I just got whisked away by a mental side-bar. Carry on.
Here I am, getting all bent out of shape over one lousy copy of The Advocate, and elucidator is getting shown gay porn at church.
Esprix, can I borrow that fan?
First they ordain women. Then they start communing children. Then they start showing gay porn.
Next thing you know, they are gonna change the time of the early service from 8:15 to 8:30!
And that way lies madness.
Regards,
Shodan
How on earth could homosexuality be genetic? Was your father gay? Grandfather? If he was, you wouldn’t exist. It seems like this is a gene that should have disappeared long ago. IMHO this kind of perverse sexual urge can and ought to be overcome.
And here’s a biblical quote you all seemed to have missed:
Leviticus 18:22
This is the same chapter that condemns incest and beastiality. It later says,
Leviticus 18:29
That would explain why gays feel alienated.
The only argument you have is that it is accepted more widely by society, but when has that been an accurate measure of right/wrong? Slavery was once popular. Smoking, (while not necessarily evil), was once widely accepted and was even promoted as healthy, but most people now concede it can kill you.
The same book also condemns eating shellfish. And wearing mixed fibers. And planting different crops in the same field. And eating bacon. It also says women must go outside the camp and stay in a tent after childbirth. You’re supposed to stone disobidient children. Adultry is punishable by death. Having sex during a woman’s period gets you banished. Don’t forget the animal sacrifice you’re required to make.
And condoned by the very book you’re quoting above.
Do you have a point? This isn’t a Theocracy we live in. That book doesn’t get to make our laws.
McPlad, I had a second cousin was frail throughout his childhood and who died at age 13 thanks to Rh incompatibility between his parents, unsuspected until he came along. I’m sure you’ve heard of sickle-cell anemia. These are examples of genetic transmittals of conditions which did not affect the parents.
And there is at least one gay man on this board who has fathered a child (the natural way), so don’t be so quick to assume that nobody’s father was gay.
Second, congenital conditions are not transmitted by genetics, but caused before birth. Offhand I cannot think of a common example but therein lies another possible non-choice scenario causing a condition.
Third, early childhood experiences can condition people without their consent. I intervened a while ago in what turned out to be the third generation of incestual molestation in a family. I have a great deal of sympathy for everybody involved but the uncle who started the whole thing; they were psychologically in a mess not of their own making, even though some of them were also offenders.
Now that you’ve quoted the Old Testament to us, would you explain in what way laws given to the Children of Israel are supposed to be applicable to a predominantly Gentile society? Or are we all supposed to be keeping kosher?
I don’t know where you got that from, but my argument is simply this: As a Christian, I am not supposed to judge and condemn my fellow man. Not you, not the gay men on this board, not anybody. And I am supposed to call you out when I see you committing a sin against your brother. And that’s exactly what I’m doing, because that, my friend, is what you’re doing.
No, gays don’t feel alienated because they’ve been “cut off from the congregation” – but because people like you use the Bible to hate and condemn them.
You are doing exactly what Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing. And I beseech you in His name to stop it.
OK, who told His4Ever to invite her friends over to play?
If you have think the rest of us ought to obey your deity’s injunctions against hot man lovin’, then I trust that you also don’t eat bacon (Lev.11:4) or oysters (Lev 11:10) which God also calls “abominations”; that if you have sex with a woman you take a showr and stay rituall unclean all day (Lev. 15:16); and you don’t wear cotton/wool blends 9Lev. 19:19).
Of course, I notice that all these devil worshipping fundies tend to ignore Leviticus19:17.
OK, who told His4Ever to invite her friends over to play?
If you have think the rest of us ought to obey your deity’s injunctions against hot man-lovin’, then I trust that you also don’t eat bacon (Lev.11:4) or oysters (Lev 11:10) which God also calls “abominations”; that if you have sex with a woman you take a showr and stay ritually unclean all day (Lev. 15:16); and you don’t wear cotton/wool blends (Lev. 19:19). If you ignore the rest of the mosaic code, then explain why you wish to enfoece the prohibition against homosexuality.
Of course, I notice that all these devil-worshipping fundies tend to ignore Leviticus 19:17.
Apparently, McPlad has also never heard of recessive and dominant genes.
:rolleyes:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, kid, yer killin’ me! 
Tell you what - go take some basic biology class somewhere and get back to us, as it is painfully obvious you know not one damnable thing about biology, genetics, reproduction, or, for, that matter, sociology.
(Oh, that’s rich. <heh heh heh!> )
Esprix
Well, couple of things to say.
Esprix surely you are aware (if I may call you Shirley?) that homophobe is a neologism, an invented word created towards an end. And the end is more or less valid, as far as I’m concerned, but it is “spin”, nonetheless, and there is no good reason for us to pretend otherwise.
As to the “gay by choice” thing, that brings up a rather interesting question. During the years when strident feminism was in full kvetch, I knew quite a few women who adopted a lesbian “lifestyle” as an expression of thier “revolutionary ardor”. I never knew a gay man who claimed that he became gay because women were assholes.
As to the religious implications: oh, pish and tosh. Jesus hung out with lepers, prostitutes, Pharisees, tax collectors, loved and forgave them all. If He can forgive all of them, why would the Village People (three gays, two imposters) be beyond the pale?
I look forward to the day when nobody gives a shit how you get your goodies, as long as its consensual and doesn’t scare the horses.
And now that you mention it, whats up with that David Bowie guy anyway? Was he just yanking our, uh, chain?
There were imposters? I rented Can’t Stop The Music (an absolutely gawdawful movie, BTW), and if any of those guys, especially the leatherman, weren’t gay, they were faking it awfully well.
Because of Macho Man. Trust me on this.
Regards,
Shodan
And Gale Harrod, don’t forget him.
Yeah, you’re right. It gives the gay-unfriendly too much credit; after all, if it’s a phobia, it sounds too much like an excusable psychological illness.
I prefer to use the term ‘straight supremacist’; has a much nicer ring to it.