why would a minor key start with A instead of a major one? did people play mostly in minor back then, or did they just not know their alphabet?
I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking. There is A major, and there is a major and minor scale for every one of the twelve tones (in the western tonal system.) Major and minor scales are determined by the intervals between each note, so you can start them anywhere you want.
I was completely baffled by this until I realized you are talking about a music keyboard.
it’s just that the pianoforte is in the key of C-major.
Sorry the key of C.
i shoulda known that. DUH. i think my dad’s saxophone (he doesn’t play it; it just belongs to his church.) is in A.
To expand on MC’s post, every instrument has it’s own key. Pianos, most flutes, etc. are in the key of C-major. A French horn is in the key of F-major. A clarinet is in the key of B flat.
What this means is that for if these instruments played the same notation, they would come out with different tones. In order to come out with the same tone, each instrument would have to transpose the notation into their tune. In others words, to produce the same tone as a piano, a clarinet would move the notation down a step and a half.
So the basic tone for a piano is the C. Hence it has the special key.
And let me tell you it’s not easy trying to transpose music from the key of C when you’re instruments is in the E b key.
It’s not that hard in some cases. If it’s in Bass Clef, you read it as if it’s Treble Clef, add three sharps, and drop an octave (as needed).
Okay, maybe that is a little hard. It’s not too bad if you go to F, though (add just one sharp, switch clefs and read a step up, like regularly transposing from Eb).
I suppose the question really is why C Major is the key without marks in the key signature for our notation, instead of A. I’ll have to ask someone about that.
A Saxophone in A? Which saxophone is in A?
A Tenor Sax is in Bb, and I think a Soprano is as well. An Alto is Eb, and I think a baritone sax is as well.
Why do they put instruments in different keys?
Funny, today I was thinking about asking something along these lines… Why is the piano in C? Why not D or F or something else?
Below is a rough diagram of a piano keyboard
Black| Db Eb Gb Ab Bb Db Eb Gb Ab Bb Db Eb Gb Ab Bb
Keys | C# D# F# G# A# C# D# F# G# A# C# D# F# G# A#
White|C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C D E F G A B
Seven “white note” (diatonic) scales (modes) can be derived from this arrangement, starting with a given note and ending with the note of the same name but an octave higher.
The one that starts from A and goes to A is called Aolean.
B to B is Locrian.
C to C is Ionian.
D to D is Dorian.
E to E is Phrygian.
F to F is Lydian.
G to G is Mixolydian.
Each mode has a different pattern, and sounds different to the eaar.
It was decided that the Ionian mode sounded nice, and became what is now know as a “major” scale.
Because none of the scales has symmetry, starting an Ionian scale on a key other than C necessarily requires that at least one of the notes in the scale is a black key.
So, it’s simply by definition that the C scale (Ionian) contains no black keys.
BTW, Aolean mode is what’s know as a “minor” scale. This is why C Major and A Minor have the same key signature, as do any other major/minor modes that begin with notes that are 3 half-steps apart; e.g., E[sup]b[/sup] Major and C Minor both have 3 flats in their signature.
Wow, I get to answer a question! (Or, at least partially answer it).
Many transposing instruments switch keys to keep the fingerings similiar to each other. Lets take several instruments as an example: Flute, Clarinet, Alto Saxophone, and Tenor Saxophone. These instruments are keyed in C, Bb, Eb, and Bb, respectively. G on top of the staff is fingered identically on each of these instruments (thumb, three left hand fingers), yet they produce the pitches of G, F, Bb, and F, again, respectively. If the instruments were not transposed, the fingerings for each of these instruments would be quite different.
Note: I don’t have a cite for this, but this makes sense to me.
You are correct, particularly in the case of saxophones. Similar fingerings make it possible to play a whole family of instruments despite thier different pitches.
The missing data is that those instruments which are in the same clef also have their written music transposed. The note written on the page as a B-flat is fingered as a B-flat without regard to which instrument you are playing, thus the transposition is done for you in the written music rather that having to be done by you on the fly.
Of course, if you are strictly improvisational (having no written music) you must be prepared to transpose at need.
I’m not sure anyone is actually getting at the OP (if I understand it correctly). I think that what the OP meant to ask is why the standard major key (the one with no sharps or flats) begins on C instead of A, while the standard minor key begins on A.
Just to explain what I mean by “standard major key” (my term), the earliest recorded music in the west (Gregorian Chant) did not have sharps or flats. It also was modal, not tonal, which means it did not have that pull towards a particular note (IOW, a C major scale has a natural gravity towards the note of C. Modal music doesn’t have that effect exactly). So this old music frequently began on different pitches (D, E, F, or G, I think) and that was what defined the mode. (actually, it may have contained an occasional Bb, but no more than one flat and I don’t believe there were any sharps yet).
I’m guessing that as music develped, simply by using the pitches that they had available (remember, no sharps or flats except for the Bb) the tonal C major scale took on its familar quality. IOW, they did not have the scale first and then decide to arbitrarily label the notes C D E F G A B C, but rather had the pitches first and then discovered the major scale within it.
Was the original labeling of pitches arbitrary? To tell you the truth I honestly don’t know. Could be. But the idea of the major scale we know today didn’t come until centuries after this early recorded music, as did the more distant keys with many sharps or flats.
BTW, while it is true that the various transposing instruments mentioned in this thread are simply in different keys while the piano can be said to be in C, I do believe that, in terms of music theory (and history as I’ve explained) C is indeed the special primary key (regardless of instrument) and thus all other keys are theoretically transpositions of C.
If you look at a piano keyboard, you’ll notice that the bottom (leftmost) note is A, not C. That’s a clue that A Minor (not C Major) is how the all-white (no sharps and flats) key should be known. The “key” of an instrument is determined by the note produced with no fingerings. That is, played “open.” If you play a piano “open” you’re going to start on A and proceed “up” the keyboard.
But the keyboard is an instrument that has to be fingered! Unlike the wind instruments whose basic (root) note is an open tube, the string instruments (including the strings in a piano) can be tuned to many different notes between the point where the sound of the plucked or bowed (or hammered) string makes an audible sound and the point where the string breaks from too much tension. It is by convention that string instruments (including piano keyboards) are tuned to various pitches. The latest convention is for the A below Middle C to be tuned so that it vibrates at 440 Hertz (cycles per second). Other notes are tuned by way of a system known as The Well-Tempered Scale.
The A Minor (A B C D E F G) key predates the C Major key in musical history. Other posts here have explained well the “modes” and how Aeolian and Ionian relate to our current designations of Minor and Major. Oddly enough, there are three (at least) “flavors” of Minor. The one (in A) with no black notes is called Natural Minor. There is also the Harmonic Minor, which , in A, is A B C D E F G#. And there is the Melodic Minor, which has two sets of notes: Ascending, it is A B C D E F# G#, and Descending it is G F E D C B A (same as Natural Minor).
The way Music Theory has developed historically, it has been the Major Scale that has won out in terms of a “preferred” key from its sound and thus the designation of the all-white scale as C Major (not A Minor) stems from that historically later development.
The thing to know about Major versus Minor keys/scales is the way the intervals (spacings between notes) are arranged. Using the white-note-only scale of C Major as the model, and following AWB’s diagram, you see that from C to D requires an “interval” of Two Notes (C - C# - D). This is also known as a Whole Step. From D to E (D - D# - E) is another Whole Step. But from E to F is a Half Step (no intervening black note to have to skip). Following that logic for the whole scale from C to C-octave, we have a scale made up of W W H W W W H, that goes C (skip C#) D (skip D#) E F (skip F#) G (skip G#) A (skip A#) B C-octave.
If that same sequence of steps is applied to A we have: A B C# D E F# G# A-octave making up the A Major scale. Also note that to get A Natural Minor (all white notes) from the A Major scale, we must “flat” three notes: C# becomes C, F# becomes F, and G# becomes G.
Applying that same logic to C Major, we have to play C D Eb F G Ab Bb C to get C Natural Minor. C Natural Minor uses the same notes as Eb Major.
So, the answer to “why is C the only major key without black keys” boils down to: it’s a matter of convention developed over centuries by Music Theory. It just is, is a simpler way to put it.
Thanks, Dr. Love and hammerbach! That’s something I’ve always wondered about.
It’s more than just fingering, an instruments key for a woodwind or brass instrument would be the note it plays when none of it’s keys/valves are depressed.
Sorry, but this is incorrect.
The key of an instrument is determined by what pitch is produced when the instrument is fingered C. Following my previous four examples: when a flute is fingered C, it produces the pitch of C on the piano, thus, it is a C instrument. When a clarinet or Tenor Saxophone fingers C, it produces the pitch of Bb on the piano, thus they are Bb instruments. And when an Alto Saxophone fingers C, it produces the pitch of Eb on the piano, thus, an Eb instrument.
If we follow the system of pitches when an instrument is played “open” we get the following: Flute, when played open, produces the pitch of C#. Clarinet produces F. Alto Saxophone produces E, and Tenor Saxophone produces B. Notice that two instruments that were previously in the same key, Clarinet and Tenor Saxophone, are now in different keys.
I do not know how this works out with brass instruments.