I think it’s pretty clearly both. It’s a secular holiday and it’s a religious holiday (in a way not really like any other holiday, at least in the U.S.), which is what makes questions like the thread title so complicated and controversial.
Israel, and Iran, are not known for being aggressively secular, so they are not really different from the U.S. in having religious holidays. Even China has holidays like January 1 and the Pure Brightness Festival. Israel has Passover and Shavuoth and Yom Kippur and so on, but not Christmas.
It is astonishing to me the number of people today who totally misunderstand what this phrase means. An “establishment of religion” is NOT a policy that favors Christianity over other religions; it is a policy that favors a particular denomination of Christianity over all other denominations of Christianity.
Congregationalism generally prevailed in the New England states, whereas the Church of England (Episcopal) generally prevailed in the Southern states (and in time usurped the Dutch Reformed Church in New York), and Quakers and their allies were prominent in the middle states. Although Maryland was originally founded in part to provide religious freedom for Roman Catholics, it eventually established the Episcopal Church.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/801/established-churches-in-early-america
Cite?
I don’t care if every office, Government, or otherwise is closed on December 25th because there aren’t enough workers. That doesn’t justify picking one religion over others and deciding it’s the only one that gets a federal holiday. Either give every religion a federal holiday, which obviously isn’t practical, or don’t give any religion its own Government approved holiday.
They could have made December 25th a federal holiday and called it “First Responders Day”, or “Firefighters Day”, or “Medical Practitioners Day”… it doesn’t matter what you call it, but celebrate something that’s meaningful to everybody, not just the people who happen to have a certain belief system. If I was a Muslim or if I was Jewish I would deeply resent it considering all religions are supposed to be treated equally. The fact that it’s what the majority wants and it’s never going to change doesn’t make it right.
The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids both.
Though it’s not uncontroversial, the Lemon Test has been used to decide whether laws are consistent with the First Amendment prohibition of establishment of religion:
So there’s no constitutional problem with the government requiring that all citizens pay tithes to the united tithe fund, which then distributes that money on a per capita basis to all Christian congregations, based on the number of adherents each church has, without taking denomination into account?
Moderating:
We recently had a lengthy discussion about whether Christmas is it isn’t a Christian holiday in the US
I request that if you feel the need to argue that topic, you take it there. This thread is about a related topic (why is Christmas a federal holiday in the US). You can state your opinion (it’s actually secular/it’s a Christian holiday/something else) to give context to the rest of your post. But please don’t engage other posters regarding this, or i expect this thread will be overwhelmed by that side-discussion.
The US doesn’t have anything called “bank holidays.” Banks close on Federal and State holidays, but so do a lot of other places; and the term’s not in any sort of common use.
I’ve never seen a history of Columbus Day that linked it in any way to runs on the banking system. Do you have a cite?
The term “bank holiday” isn’t commonly used - but although I don’t have a cite, my long-ago memory from working in banks is that although banks are not required to close on legal holidays there are at least some states that prohibit banks from closing on a day that is not a legal holiday in the absence of an emergency or permission from the regulatory agency. (IOW , unlike other businesses, a bank can’t just decide to close on the day after Thanksgiving)
I’m not sure I understand the distinction here. A Federal Holiday is just a declaration that “every federal office is closed”. Right?
In 1870?
And, to make sure I understand, you just don’t like that the federal government has acknowledge the reality that Christmas is celebrated on the 25th of December? And you think a better state of affairs would be that instead of being honest about the state of the world, the government should do some kind of doublespeak and pretend we’re honoring firefighters? That is hard for me to wrap my head around.
I think, in a democracy, it kind of does. Like, there are good arguments for anti-democratic institutions to protect the rights of minorities against the tyranny of the majority, but I have a hard time understanding how anyone is harmed by the government acknowledging the reality that most people don’t want to work on Christmas, because it’s Christmas, and we might as well close the offices that day.
Maybe the disconnect is that you think that a Christmas federal holiday amounts to the government promoting Christianity, but I don’t think that’s the case. More recent federal holidays are clearly intended to promote reverence of certain events, but that’s not in the legal text at all, and when you consider the original holidays, it seems pretty clear to me that it was simply an acknowledgement that people didn’t want to work on that day and shouldn’t have to.
But by 1870, you had “A Visit from St. Nicholas” and “A Christmas Carol” (along with the UK tradition of Christmas ghost stories) Also merchants had seized upon Christmas as a marketing exercise. Christmas cards were being exchanged many of which had no religious references. Hanukkah was barely celebrated (there were articles on how it was a dying tradition by 1910).
Also, in the 19th century people were less sticklers for the letter of the Constitution. Giving all employees a day off – which they could mark in whatever way they wanted – is not establishing a religion.
It’s not like anyone is forcing non-Christians into church on Christmas. Given the overwhelming majority of Americans would either be taking the day off (any way they could) or deeply resentful of having to work giving everyone that day off seems to be the least disruptive solution.
On the contrary, it’s 100% relevant. For some, it’s about the birth of Christ, but for many others – even many Christians – it’s about Santa Claus, gift giving, family gatherings, Christmas songs, etc. It’s perfectly possible to celebrate everything about Christmas without mentioning Christ at all (remember the “Keep Christ is Christmas” bumper stickers from people who felt it wasn’t celebrating the religious aspects of the holidays?)
People don’t pray to Santa (other kids wanting gifts). No one reads the bible verses about Ebenezer Scrooge. No one reads the psalm about Rudolph.
Christmas is like the Christians taking Saturnalia and making it another holiday. Americans have taken Christmas and turned it into something else that is far from its religious origins.
These seem to be somewhat in conflict. For what it’s worth, I agree with the former. If Christmas was celebrated as purely a religious holiday and there were zero secular element, it would be constitutionally acceptable for it to be a government holiday.
Because the holiday is not an endorsement of religion, it’s simply an acknowledgement that people don’t want to work that day, and if enough people don’t want to work (for any reason), then it makes sense to just close all the offices for logistical reasons.
That reasoning works regardless of how secular/religious Christmas is, so I think that it’s an irrelevant question with respect to whether Christmas is a holiday. The only thing that matters is a lot of people don’t want to work that day, not why.
That is a perception of mainstream Americans from a Christian background. Members of other religions do feel very differently about it. I know quite a few Jews who absolutely refuse to participate in the holiday whatsoever because they believe they are forbidden to take part in another religion (obviously, there are Jews such as myself who are not such sticklers). None of the music, no Santa, no gifts, no lights, etc. Jehovah’s Witnesses absolutely do not celebrate it, either, even if they are a variety of Christian due to feeling the holiday has Pagan origins. I suspect there are other minority religions who feel something of the same.
Bottom line - many Christians, and those of Christian background, see it as secular, others from outside that tradition/culture very much see it as a religious holiday but not their religion.
Given that making it an official Federal holiday is not, in anyway, forcing those other people to participate in a holiday they feel is not theirs and/or they should not be participating in like I said it’s probably the least disruptive way to deal with 90%+ of the population insisting on the day off. It still chafes some people, but part of living in a civilization is making some accommodations towards others.
I can’t really wrap my head around it either - it’s like saying I object to Robert E Lee’s birthday or Confederate Memorial Day being a public holiday but it’s just fine now that the names have been changed to “State Holiday” ( which is what Georgia actually did a few years ago)
It has been pointed out, it is a legal holiday because, if 90%+ of the population would want it to be a work holiday, for cultural reasons (whether religious or secular-social in origin), it costs the different levels of governments very little to grant a festive day off to the noncritical workforce in exchange for not pissing off 90% of them. Welcome to how representative democracies work in our real world.
“But that’s wrong!”
Roger, duly noted, the objection shall go on the record.
Celebrating Christ’s alleged birthday on December 25th with a federal holiday because people don’t want to work that day is all well and good, but lots of people don’t want to work on New Year’s Eve day yet that’s not a federal holiday.
The other 10 federal holidays celebrate something secular, like Memorial Day and the 4th of July. Either the US is a secular nation or it’s a Christian nation. It can’t be both and singling out Christianity because it’s the majority religion clearly shows that the US is not a secular country, no matter how secular someone thinks Christmas is. I’m personally okay with saying the US is a Christian country, and I love the idea of a free paid day off, just let’s stop pretending we live in a secular country. You can’t have it both ways.
No, it’s a perception of many Americans, not just Christian. My family on my father’s side is Jewish and my mother’s side is Jehovah’s Witness, and yet we celebrate Christmas as a completely secular holiday. Santa, tree, decorations & presents.