Ok classic rock- I dare say the Stones, Beatles, Led Zep, etc. sell as many records today as they did in their heyday- or sorta close.
Classic soul fans still gets excited over James Brown, Sam Cooke, et. al reissues.
Classic country- Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline, still popular.
Even 70’s punk and disco compilations sell well, per Amazon rankings.
What doesn’t sell well, per a scan of Amazon of rankings and a sampling of rap loving friends, is classic rap. Many people may say they like it, but it appears more so to be “respect” for the pioneers, as opposed to actually buying and playing the reissues. I personally don’t care for rap, but was very aware of it in the early 80’s, and I don’t see a lot people with Kool Moe Dee or Whodini best of compilations. What gives?
I think there’s a fundamental difference in philosophy between rap and other forms of pop music. Rock, country, and soul have strong notions of building on previous accomplishments, continuing the tradition, looking to elders for inspiration, etc. Rap is very much about innovation, rapid change, “out with the old, in with the new.” Rap fans just aren’t as interested in looking backward. That’s my take.
Or maybe there just aren’t enough rap fans who are old enough to get nostalgic about the early days of the genre. I seem to recall a number of my favorite artists and albums from the 60s and 70s turning up in the bargain bins only to come back into print later on.
How about this is a genre of music with fans who tend to be younger. There aren’t too many classic rap albums. So, perhaps fans download individual songs from I tunes, but don’t buy a complete album.
Run-DMC did a comeback with Tougher than Leather. That did pretty well. But most earlier guys either got out of the genre, died young, or graduated to the producer role.
Well, yes and no. I’ve been to a number of bars here in NY where they will play nothing but 80s and 90s dance, rap and hip hop (Rob Base, DMC, LL Cool J, Tribe Called Quest). Certain rap groups or albums are classics and everyone seems to either own them or have them shared on iTunes:
NWA
Dr Dre - The Chronic
Snoop Dogg - Doggystyle
lots of Wu-Tang clan (yes…I work in an accounting/consulting firm and everyone here is white and has Wu-Tang on the iTunes)
2Pac, Notorious BIG, etc
But in general, unlike rock music, rap, hip hop and dance doesn’t age well. Rock tends to try to create anthems that really speaks to people or revolves around timeless subject matter - girls (not bitches and hos), cars, high school, rocking out, etc.
Rap, hip hop and dance tends to focus on being “new” and “fresh” and trendy. With the exception of a few artists like 2Pac or Dr Dre, most of the music is pretty vacuous, talking about “bling” or “bitches” or “gats and 9s”. Needless to say, other than a few timeless classics, most of it has a short shelf life.
It’s for the same reason that dance music never remains popular – because it was never any good to begin with. It’s just disposable pap with no artistic depth or enduring artistic elements to sustain it.
Pop/dance music also seems to suffer the same fate as rap as it ages; there’s not as much interest in it as there might be in the older music of other genres. Sure, there’s some interest in disco from a nostalgic standpoint, but what about what your friend Jenny forced you to hear on some radio station named Kiss 94, Hot 102 or Party 101 ten or fifteen years ago?
Classic doesn’t always have to be “first generation, the people who invented it…pardon the phrase, O.G.” artists. Yeah people might not care much for Kool Mo Dee, Young MC, SugarHill Gangm etc. Like you said, they respect them as pioneers, but honestly the music is kind of cheesy. These are the people that “invented” rap. It the second generation that will have longevity.
You’d better believe that 20 years from now when my kids are growing up I’ll be playing Wu-Tang Clan’s “Enter the 36 Chambers” for them just like my Dad played Led Zepplin for me.
Those bands weren’t really the pioneers of their genre though. How many Robert Johnson records are sold each year nowadays? How many were sold in the early sixties? That’s the distance we are now from the classic hip-hop pioneers as the Zep were from theirs.
That’s a pretty absurd thing to say. If you don’t like rap, just say that. Don’t try to tell me that there’s “no artistic depth or enduring artistic elements”, cause that’s just fucking stupid.
If it had enduring artistic merit, it would have endured.
90% of any genre is crap. Rap is no different. If anything doesn’t endure it’s because it wasn’t any good to begin with, but that’s especially true of popular music.
As for the age thing, there are plenty of younger people who weren’t born when the Beatles and Stones were out, who have sought them out and are now fans. I just can’t imagine a 15 year old going into a store and buying UTFO’s greatest hits- assuming there is even such a thing. In fact does anyone know anybody who pulls out pre-NWA & Tupac type rap and plays it- ever? Even not being a rap fan, though I do agree that Tupac and maybe one or two others will have some sort of lasting popularity, but that is due to the obvious quality of the artists.
What are the sales of Big Bill Broonzy nowadays? Not many, but an influence on the bands you cited. Indeed, another founder of the genre. From the 1930’s.
Yes. Run DMC, De La Soul, Eric B and Rakim and Public Enemy (and about a thousand others) are still played, and recycled as is usual with the genre. The Sugarhill Gang are still sampled sometimes FFS. You seem to be denigrating a style you clearly know nothing about.
*tries hard to think of something Wee Bairn might like…get your mitts on Gravediggaz - Niggamortis, If you don’t think that this a funny and funky album, the whole genre is probably lost to you.
We need to define “Classic rap” to be able to answer this, don’t we?
Rap is a relatively new form of popular music, so I’m not sure what’s “classic.” Is Run-DMC the classic rap? NWA? Public Enemy? Or are we going back to Grandmaster Flash? I still hear a lot of Run DMC. I still hear a lot of early Beastie Boys.
The OP cites Led Zeppelin as “classic rock” but Led Zeppelin hit its peak a full 15-20 years after rock music was established as a major art form. Rap music wasn’t well established to the same extent until the mid 80s, so really, today’s big acts ARE classic rap by the same standard - OutKast is basically the rap equivalent of Led Zeppelin, and they seem awfully popular. (Hopefully they’ll remain healthier.) Cypress Hill’s seminal track “Insane in the Brain,” which I still hear all the time, was released in 1993, which makes it roughly equivalent to, say, “American Woman” (released 1970) in terms of its position in time after the popoularization of that form of music.
Msmith says:
Well, that’s always been true of pop music, though, hasn’t it? This reminds me of those threads where people complain that “they don’t make stuff like they used to.” Sure they do; it’s just that the shitty stuff was thrown away a long time ago.
Some of the songs there are still listened to today. Most aren’t regularly played, and some are totally forgotten - I mean, “Honey Cone”? “Indian Reservation”? Even some of the hits that were by big stars are forgotten parts of the resumes. These aren’t all one hit wonders, either - Bread was very big in the same time frame and yet they seem to be largely forgotten now.
Thanks, Grandpa. Now go sit in your rocking chair and take your pills. This thread is for people who aren’t really old like you. It’s for folks under the age of 60 who can still drive safely.
My take - Rap is more associated with visual aspects than other music genres, and thus the visual representation of rap is forever linked to how the performers looked. So it’s hard to listen to old acts like MC Hammer, Kid’n’Play, Afrika Bambaataa, Rock Steady Crew, etc. without recalling how cheesy the once-cool past now looks.
I’d say that the visual-based acts of rock, such as KISS, the various 60s-70s acts that peaked during the frilly uniform fad, and the 80s hair-guitar, are likewise less broadly popular than their “just-is” musical contemporaries.
Struan, I don’t care for rap but as a music fan have always been aware of it, and while Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash et. al. are still sampled, or pulled out for soundtracks, etc., very few people actually go out and spend 18.98 for the best of Sugarhill Gang on CD, whereas a Beatles release of outtakes will go #1 on Billboard. I have never in my life pulled beside someone in a car and had them blaring Public Enemy’s first album, great as it may be to some. People always talk about the greatness of these albums, so why don’t they listen to them?
The Big Bill Bronzy comparison I don’t think is a good one, because he was a pioneer in a genre that laid the foundation for rock, but not many would actually call what he did rock. The first artists of the rock era are generally thought to be Elvis, Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, etc. and all of them are still very popular, unlike early rap artists. Big Bill Bronzy would be be a good analogy to those who set the stage for rap in the early 70’s, such as the Lost Poets, Gil Scot-Heron, Fatback Band, Etc.
My definition of classic rap for the sake of the OP was pre “gangsta” rap, which I think is around 1987 when NWA’s first album came out, but yours may differ.
I still listen to old rap, dance, and new wave stuff. However, whenever I turn on one of those “Classic Rock” stations and get hit with another moldy Eagles tune I just about want to hang myself.