This is probably a dumb question, but I was wondering: why, if it does not affect someone else, is greed considered bad or sinful? I once got into an argument with a devout Christian who said making more than you needed was greedy, and thus bad. I can see how that may be technically considered greedy, but why would this greed be bad? You’re not really depriving someone else of more money, or are you?
Just a thought- but I remember back in the Seven Deadly Sins thread (as in why were they so deadly and sinful), that there was a line drawn between excess and moderation. That is to say, it’s one thing to have ambition. It’s healthy to want to do well, climb the corporate ladder, own nice things. A lot of people want that. I guess greed would be crossing a line from ambition to obsessing over it. And when you begin to obsess, you focus all your attention on an object. In general obsession tends to be unhealthy.
So I suppose what I’m saying is that the kind of “greed” you’re talking about in the OP (making enough money not only to cover your basic needs, but also for luxury) sounds perfectly okay. In fact, probably not even greed. When you start focusing on that exclusively, then you’re probably in greed territory.
I don’t know that making more money than you need is in itself greedy. I can see, however, how making more than you need and not giving any to those who need it more can be considered greedy, and I can also see how making a lot with no concern about how your methods affect others is greedy(an employer who doesn’t fix unsafe conditions becasue it will cut into profits, for example) My definition of greed (and it may not match the dictionary one) is not restricted to money.Someone who eats two slices of cake might not be greedy.Someone who eats two slices, not caring that there’s only enough cake for everyone to get one slice is.
I would offer that in some sense, greed acts in opposition to altruism. To the utilitarian individual acting selfishly is ultimately detrimental to the whole of society. Because conventional morality (mythology/religion aside) stems from a cultural desire to further the good of civilization, greed is considered “bad.”
The two adjectives in the definition pretty much answer the question. 
Greed, in moderation, is good. As George Carlin recently said in one of his rare moments of lucidity since he turned into a bitter old codger, the tenth commandment – “Thou shalt not covet…” in Exodus 20:17 – doesn’t make any sense – because that’s how the economy works. “Hey, Dave just got a great new stereo! I want one of those.”
Humans basically operate out of self-interest. We all define it differently, but that’s essentially what motivates us. We want to improve our lives, accumulate wealth, increase our personal comfort, and so on. That’s why capitalism is superior to communism or other collectivized systems, because at a fundamental level it harnesses the basic energy of the human animal.
However, it can of course be taken too far. Greed, unchecked, is destructive, and an obstacle to a healthy, productive society. That in my opinion is why the cult of deregulation is so wrong-headed. It seems self-evident to me that the best socioeconomic system is one that captures and is driven by the fundamental energy of self-interested action, but that uses a system of checks and controls to prevent it from running wild. You need your oxen to plow the field, but you don’t send them out without a harness and a driver, right?
So, as with anything, greed is bad only if taken too far. Of course, if you want to get into a debate over definitions, you could very well say the word itself “greed” means, in fact, “self-interest taken too far,” but that’s just semantics.
I’m not adressing the moral issue here, just pointing out that since ressources are limited, when you use them (be it for necessities or luxuries), you’re necessarily depriving someone else of more money. For instance, if you realize that you’re making more money than you need, and ask your boss to cut your salary in half, this money will necessarily go to someone else (the company owner, your coworkers, the customers, charities…)
Also, concerning the slice of cake example given by doreen : actually, we are in a situation where not everybody had a slice of cake and we nevertheless eat two (or ten) slices. For instance, I’m currently using ressources for a selfish luxury (posting on the internet) while millions of people have AIDS in Africa and no mean to buy the necessary drugs…Giving some bits of one of my ten slices to the needy (like in giving some money to charities) will certainly somewhat relieve us from our feelings of guiltiness (for those people who have such feelings) but doesn’t essentially change the fact that I’m eating 10 slices and others none.
Finally “more money than we need” is an extremely blurry concept. Actually, I’m pretty certain that most of us have more money than we need. We need a basic shelter (not a large appartment or house) some food (pastas or bread would do it…a little meat and some fruits/fresh vegetables from time to time), water, drugs when we’re ill. That’s prety much all our material needs. But I’m not convinced this would be the definition one would give of one’s needs, in most cases…
Greed isn’t bad, it runs out capitalistic economy. The people who tell you greed is bad are just jealous Of course, greed can be bad if you go over the line and steal, but that is a seperate issue altogether. two different things
Well, a moral theologian will tell you that the “seven deadly sins” are not, strictly speaking, sins at all but rather occasions of sin. It’s the things that greed may lead you to do that might be sins.
Stealing, dishonesty, etc, are the obvious evils that can flow from greed, but there are less obvious possibilities. Concentrating on work and earning to the exclusion of other aspects of your life – your relationships, your health – can be damaging both to you and to your family, and this is Not a Good Thing. And, of course, greed may lead you to believe that material posssessions will fulfil you, and that they are all, or most, of what you need to fulfil you, and is this is not generally true it is likely in the end to lead to unhappiness, which is also Not a Good Thing.
greed does not equal wealth. Greed is an emotion not an action. It involves lust and jeolousy. Greed can be that emotion of wanting what someone else has but differs from jeolousy in that you not only want the item you want the other person to NOT have it. It can also just be a matter of wanting more than someone else. Greed almost always carries a component of competetiveness such that the motivation is to possess MORE than anyone else or something unique. A person that is rich is not necessarily greedy for not sharing his earnings with someone less fortunate. He becomes greedy when he gets rich at the EXPENSE of someone less fortunate.
The definition is: excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness. Therefore you can acquire as much of anything up to the point that it becomes excessive and then it becomes greed. It must also be acceptable to acquire whatever you are acquiring. The officers of ENRON and WORLDCOM were not greedy until they crossed the line and started breaking the law which in turn hurt their employees and stockholders. To say that all officers of large corporations are greedy is not true and only helps promote the idea that those at ENRON & WORLDCOM just went a little too far. No they committed crimes because they became greedy.
Well, if there were infinite resources, greed wouldn’t be such a bad thing. I guess it would be more along the lines of gluttony then.
Our world is one of finite resources, though. Greed does, quite often, take food and money out of other people’s mouths. When, because of greed, there are some people with 2,000 square foot closets and some people sharing a one-bedroom shanty with 12 other people, then there is obviously something wrong.
colin
I truly apoliogize for quoting such a long passage. It’s from Lenny Bruce. I read it 35 years ago. It drives my life sometimes.
Sometimes I think I’m greedy with my time. I choose to spend it on myself rather than do some duty visits with relatives or “friends.” But I don’t feel “guilty” about this. I can argue that the time alone is for my own personal well being, or mental health.
samclem, I liked the quote except for the last line…
violet Lenny made his living as a stand-up comic. So, while he wrote what I consider to be the definitive diatribe on greed and selfishness, he had to end it with a comic’s one-liner. Sorry about that. Just remember the good parts. It works for me.
i am inclined to look at this in multiple levels:
materialism
greed
stupid greed
insane greed
i also can see where people will disagee about where one crosses over to another. everybody has to be materialistic to some degree, otherwise you’re dead. i don’t really have a problem with greed because i’m not interested in being an ascetic. the speakers on my stereo are vandersteen 2ci’s that are 3 1/2 feet tall and weigh 70 lbs each. i could live with less, but why should i? i buy used cars. stupid greed is charging up credit cards and making minimum payments. it gives instant gratification but in the long run it means paying more to have less. STUPID! lots of stupid greed in America. Insane greed is getting children addicted to cigarettes. i think CEOs of tobacco companies should have heads chopped off. how about death penalty for white collar criminals that steal more than $5 million.
death to ENRON executives! LOL!
Dal Timgar, no more Mr. Nice guy