And you’d know her intentions, how?
Her intentions are irrelevant. She does not have the legal ability to form a criminal mens rea with regards to sexual activity.
So you are honestly saying that if the State of Texas seems to think she is at least the minimum 21 years of age, it isn’t enough proof for you? Really?
By the way, I have a question for my opponents in this thread. Is there any age at all at which you would no longer accept “I thought she was of age” as an excuse? What if she’s 11? How about 9? Is there any age at all at which that excuse is no longer believable?
The state of Texas didn’t think she was 21. She used a fake ID, and everybody already knows that fake IDs exist, so no, it’s not an honest or ingenuous or reliable way to age check a young girl in a bar.
And no 15 year old looks like a 21 year old. It’s just prevaricating, disingenuous, ass-covering bullshit to say that if you see a girl in a bar you can presume she’s over the age of consent. Nobody actually thinks that underaged girls can’t get into bars.
You are side stepping the difficult questions, Dio. Come on, try to think of a way you can black and white your way through them. You can! Critical thinking is possible, even while thinking of the children.
I would imagine if you were trolling for pussy at Chuck E. Cheese there might not be quite a legal defense. But if you are at a bar I think its certainly plausable. You are so stuck on age you aren’t seeing real world situations. You are rightfully against raping kids, as most of the planet is. You aren’t seeing what anyone is saying because you are waiving your “raping kids is bad” flag so strongly. There is more going on in the OP than some dude wanting to stick his dick in a child. To imply anything different is disgenuinous.
[quote=“Diogenes_the_Cynic, post:125, topic:538677”]
The state of Texas didn’t think she was 21. She used a fake ID, and everybody already knows that fake IDs exist, so no, it’s not an honest or ingenuous or reliable way to age check a young girl in a bar.QUOTE]
No, if she met the legal requirements for age verification set up by the appropriate state governing body, yes, they did.
No, to imply that’s not ALL that it is is disingenuous. The law agrees with ME, by the way.
Dio, you can only say this if you personally know every single 15 year old on the planet. You can’t say blanketing statements like this. Its like saying every Lakota on the reservation is an alcoholic.
In this scenario her ID was fake, so she did not meet those requirements. The only way to meet those requirements is to actually BE 21.
Say this a different way I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Way to totally miss the point. I am going to go rape some 17 year olds, anyone want to join?
:rolleyes:
Anyways, this is retarded. Anyone else want to take a crack at drilling some common sense into Dio’s head?
Are these comments directed toward Dio or me?
I’m saying that all this wheedling about all these implausible scenarios is about nothing BUT trrying to argue that there should be legal weasel room for banging jailbait.
You said, “There is more going on in the OP than some dude wanting to stick his dick in a child.” I’m saying that’s EXACTLY what this is about – guys looking for loopholes.
You are wooshing us, right?
We’re not talking about 17 year olds. Why do people keep bringing up 17 year olds? 17 year olds are over the age of consent.
It depends on where you are. In some states its 16, in some its 18.
There’s only a few states where it’s 18, but I guess if you live in those states, you just have to be more careful, don’t you. It’s your job to know what the law is and to know what you’re sticking your dick in.
I have avoided entering into this thread because, well, you’re just being a bull-headed idiot. There is no arguing with you, you won’t see reason and won’t change your mind. This quoted portion, though, has annoyed the shit out of me since I began reading this thread. It’s wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongedy-wrong. I know that no number of personal anecdotes will make you believe that a young lady of the age of fifteen could ever look like she is twenty-one, but you are wrong. I have personally known, while I was sixteen, in high school, and getting into bars with no problem due to my manly physique 
, a young lady that was fourteen and easily looked the age of consent. Hell, she was wearing a C-cup shortly after hitting puberty and had the rest of the physical attributes needed to pass for an adult. By the time she was fifteen and then sixteen, passing for twenty-one was no problem. Don’t get me wrong, raping a minor is a horrible offense that should garner the most horrible punishments we can think of, but there is some grey area that needs to be recognized. No matter how much you want it to be, the world isn’t quite that black and white.
I still don’t pass for 21 or even 18 (in bars, on the casino floor, certainly not in real life - I’ve recently been assumed to be as young as 15) in most situations, and I will be 25 soon. No man who has ever hit on me has asked for proof of age (it’s kind of funny that when I tell 15-year-old boys and 50-year-old men my true age, I get the same look of surprise). And I have known multiple girls in their early-mid teens who people assumed to be in their early 20s or beyond. Everyone knows this happens (except DtC apparently), most people can’t tell another past-puberty person’s exact age just by looking at them or even talking to them. I certainly can’t. I’ve seen it in action a hundred times - my best friend in high school and her little sister looked and seemed 10 years older than they were. All through high school they could buy cigarettes, got served alchohol, and were approached by much older men - not because the 25-year-old men were perverts, child molestors, or wanting to take advantage, but because these girls looked like their peers. But they were young teenagers.
On the one hand, we do need to protect children and young women, from predators of course, and from perfectly nice men who find them sexually attractive because they look like adult women when they are young in years. On the other hand, I don’t think the line between ‘innocent child’ and ‘consenting adult’ can be drawn by age or anything else. The 18th birthday of a girl, or the first day of college, is not a magic day in which she becomes mature enough to handle sexual relationships with adult men. When I was 14, plenty of my friends looked and acted much older and some were sexually active - I was still a skinny child who had yet to get my first period, and I wasn’t physically or emotionally ready for dating/sex until I was nearly 20 (thankfully I was able to make the decision for myself when I was prepared). I also have a big problem with treating teenagers, who must be technically capable of running their own lives as they have throughout the history of the human species, as babies with no agency. The fact that ‘adulthood’ seems to be pushed to an older age every decade is frustrating for me, as someone who has been on my own since age 18 and is still being discriminated against on the basis of age, at a half-century old.
Both my little sisters and most of my friends have been stautorily “raped” (I don’t care about the legal definitions, out of respect to the women I know who have survived ACTUAL rape, I have to put in ironic quotations). Very often by deceiving the men in question, because most young men have a healthy fear of being prosecuted for this, and do make an effort to find out the age of a young woman who wants to have sex with them. But from what I have heard from my female friends, the majority of these situations worked out fine (there have been bad relationships of course, but for my friends at least it doesn’t seem like the 22-year-olds they told they were 18 when they were 16 were any more likely to be shitheads than the young men they were fooling around with when they were actually 18).
Too many cases of men being prosecuted for statutory rape seem vastly unfair to me (not the Lawrence Taylor case - I hope this charge will put him in jail for longer). Too often the wishes of the victim are not respected, her parents make the decision to press charges.
As a woman and a feminist, I can’t make up my mind on this issue. We need laws to protect actual children, and I suppose the laws now do provide more safety for young women, so that’s a good thing. But it makes me sick when I hear about 20-year-old boyfriends of 17-year-old high school seniors serving jail time.