Why is Jar Jar Binks Annoying...but C3PO isn't?

Cafe Society
101

Well… The actor inside the suit wasn’t black, and once we eventually saw him without his helmet, the character wasn’t black either, but there was no way for the audience to know either of those things as of A New Hope. The one thing that the audience did have a chance of identifying was the voice actor, who was in fact black.

But that’s still a pretty weak point. And while the depiction of Jar-Jar might have been based on old racial stereotypes, that doesn’t mean it was a racial stereotype itself. Or rather, if it is, it’s a stereotype against Gungans, not against humans of any color.

102

I never saw Threepio as annoying. In Star Wars he did have some funny lines but there was no hint of being annoying at all. “Let the wookie win” “Help I Think I’m Melting” “Curse my metal body I wasn’t fast enough”

In Empire he was more annoying…to the other characters, which made him a bit of a straight man to the jokes. Han holding his hand over threepio’s mouth on hoth. “Shut him up or shut him down” “Never tell me the odds”

But once Threepio gets shot, he turns into angry threepio and has some great lines himself “Only a mophead like you could be stupid enough” “Artoo Detoo you know better than to trust a strange computer” “Noisy Brute! Why don’t we just go into light speed”

In Jedi I don’t remember him being funny or annoying except for the one line “It isn’t in my programming to impersonate a deity.”

103

We’re past the need for spoilers, right?

I actually liked his entrance in the latest movie: it’s the big and serious meeting of the aging hero and the sad-eyed queen, and just before that inevitable scene can slowly descend into plodding solemnity, he pops into frame at a jaunty angle to explain that you probably didn’t recognize him because of the red arm.

You know what? That worked for me. I’m guessing it’d get real old real fast – but in instant retrospect, that moment was crying out for something lighthearted to take the piss out of it, and I genuinely laughed.

104

Actually, even this doesn’t hold up, because James Earl Jones didn’t start doing the dubbing for Vader until Empire, IIRC.

Yeah, I enjoyed this too.

105

Jones did portray Vader’s voice in A New Hope and Empire but was originally uncredited.

106

No, James Earl Jones was always Vader’s voice, however he was uncredited for the first 2 films.

107

I’d guess that for one thing, Threepio is a likable and useful character, as others have said, and that he’s not obtrusive. Jar Jar, on the other hand…

The racial stereotypes (perceived or otherwise) aside, he’s too obtrusive and smacks of the writers TRYING too hard. Everything he does screams “Look! Look, it’s the comic relief! Isn’t he FUNNY?! ISN’T HE?!”

I’ve heard it said that the one way to make sure a character is NOT funny is to designate said character as comic relief. Too often, a character designed to be comic relief spends too much time telling the audience he’s funny, instead of letting humor grow naturally out of a believable character (as, I believe, Threepio did).

Another illustration of this principle…there were two made-for-TV versions of Dickens’ David Copperfield released within a year of each other, the BBC version that introduced Daniel Radcliff and a TNT version with Sally Field and Michael Richards (all playing things very broadly). The two versions of the character Mr. Micawber are a perfect example…in the BBC version, Bob Hoskins played the character straight, as a sort of Charlie Chaplin figure of dignity in the midst of hardship, and let the humor come naturally and believably out of that. Michael Richards (yes, Kramer) in the TNT version was loud, broad, and had the same “look-how-funny-this-character-is” that plagues the worst kind of “comic relief”.

That’s one of the reasons Jar Jar grates so much. Years ago, when TPM first came out, I used to visit TheForce.Net boards, and someone astutely compared Jar Jar to the Simpsons’ Poochie…a character cynically designed for marketing and kid-appeal, which the audience saw through immediately. I think it’s an apt comparison.

But the interesting thing is…has anyone read the recent book How Star Wars Conquered the Universe? The author, Chris Taylor, details one of the earliest drafts/outlines of TPM. In it, Jar Jar (and his fellow Gungans) speak perfect English, and Jar Jar is a bit buffoonish in places, but overall more dignified and useful. He’s more of a “not-much-book-learning-but-plenty-of-common-sense” type, and helps plead the Naboo’s case to Boss Nass quite articulately (“I have traveled far and seen many wonders, and I have learned that if we don’t become part of this universe, we will die in isolation.”). This first draft wasn’t perfect, but it was arguably better than what we got.

So, Taylor wonders, how did we get from a much more believable character to one of the most reviled ones in SW history? What possessed Lucas to change him? Taylor speculates that Lucas realized the prequels were going to get into some pretty dark territory–the fall of the Republic, the slaughter of the Jedi, the rise of the Empire, the corruption of a good man–and, having become a father himself, worried that it would be too heavy for younger viewers, and sought to lighten it. Unfortunately, he went about it the wrong way.

108

I have to again point this out; the film released in 1977 was just called “Star Wars.” It wasn’t retitled until the altered versions started up in, IIRC, the late 90s.

Thinking about this again, I’d be curious to see a chart of how much time C3PO and Jar Jar are on screen. In “Star Wars,” C3PO is on screen a lot in the early going, but serves a distinct narrative purpose in introducing the audience to the universe of Star Wars. His screen time begins to dwindle as the real heroes emerge, though he has his moments (some of competence) on the Death Star, and in the film’s final act he almost vanishes, having nothing at all to do. His only memorable lines once the story is on the home stretch are telling R2D2 to be careful and then later when he is grief-stricken to learn R2D2 is damaged - moments that are not funny at all, but merely touching, as you see Threepio has genuine affection for his little buddy. In demonstrating his affection for R2D2 and fear for his welfare, C3PO’s character becomes relatable for the audience, because the audience also loves R2D2 and is worried about him.

Jar Jar, by comparison, isn’t in “The Phantom Menace” at all until the Jedi land on the planet with the invasion force, then has a significant role in the film for quite some time - indeed, in the middle act we see him more than we see Obi-Wan Kenobi, so you spend a really long time, half an hour at least, seeing the comic relief more than you do the trilogy’s most interesting and recognizable character. Jar Jar continues to be right in the center of the action throughout the final battles.

The thing about comic relief is, you know, they’re comic RELIEF. You bring 'em in when you need to lighten the mood and then get them out of the way when shit gets real. That’s why the “red arm” gag works in “The Force Awakens” but an unceasing diet of Jar Jar for half an hour or more does not.

109

It was added in 1981, for the re-release before Empire came out.

Also, you really don’t need to point this out. Everyone already knows.

110

To put it another way, if the droids bicker for a bit, and then Luke Skywalker shows up and you’re all wait, who’s this guy? I like this guy; get out of the way, Threepio; you’re blocking my view of the fairy-tale protagonist – well, that’s fine; he does.

And if Obi-Wan shows up, and you’re all hey, this retired superhero is way more fascinating than the bland guy; his ideas are intriguing; I want to subscribe to his newsletter; nominate that actor for an Oscar – still fine; Threepio’s gone.

And if Han Solo shows up, and you’re all wow, a good-looking dude with movie-star charisma doing the most interesting stuff yet? Wonder what he’ll do next! – again, that’s completely fine. Even LESS focus on Threepio? Sounds GREAT!

But to go the other way around? We meet an interesting protagonist, and then shift focus so we’ll spend time getting to know a less-interesting member of the party? We already know what we’re missing! He’s standing right there! I can see him!

111

I don’t disagree with any of the theories advanced so far (on why Jar Jar is annoying while C3PO isn’t). But I believe the fundamental reason for Jar Jar’s effect on most viewers is that he is a complete misfire as a character because his basic trait is neediness.

Try to think of any other character in fiction, intended to be appealing (as Jar Jar was), whose main quality is insecurity—neediness—dependency on others. There are needy and insecure and other-directed (as opposed to self-directed) characters in fiction, of course—but they are characters intended to be despised. Lickspittle crawlers who fawn over those more powerful; whining cowards; inveterate yes-men; anxious people demanding reassurance at every turn.

We tend not to like these characters. (We might have sympathy for them, but we don’t like them.)

Lucas was just way off-base in his calculation that Jar Jar would be likeable. Jar Jar is far too much of a toady to be likeable. C3PO, by contrast, at least seeks to please as part of his job; he’s not constantly begging Luke to be his friend.

112

I just now asked my wife, and she thought for a moment, and independently hit on the point made upthread: Artoo and Threepio have an Abbott-and-Costello thing going on; they’re a package deal; if you like one, you put up with the other.

But before that, her first reply was (a) Jar-Jar is irritating; (b) Threepio is a little less irritating, to the point where he’s tolerable; and © if Jar-Jar talked like Threepio, and Threepio talked like Jar-Jar, it’d be the other way around.

113

They phrase “Episode IV: A New Hope” was added to the opening crawl, but the title of the movie wasn’t changed. Even in 1997, when it was re-released, most posters just said “Star Wars,” though I think one can point to that version as the first one with the long title.

I find the notion of “neediness” around Jar Jar interesting too. The thing is, really, NONE of the characters in “The Phantom Menace” are likeable as compared to their equivalents in Star Wars. C3PO is the obvious comparison to Jar Jar and you don’t like Jar Jar as much…

… but, then, Queen Amidala is the obvious comparison to Princess Leia, and Amidala is a profoundly boring, wooden character, while Leia is sarcastic, cool, smart and interesting. Her way of changing manner depending on whom she’s talking to, her kick ass manner, and her being with the good guys despite being a bit of an elitist all suggest a real person, someone with a past and a place in this universe. Granted, Leia was easier to make cool in 1977 when it was kind of unusual for the damsel in distress, upon being released from captivity, to pick up a gun and start kicking ass and giving orders (think about it; you didn’t see that very much back then) but still, there it is.

There is really no equivalent to Han Solo. I guess Qui-Gon Jinn? God, he’s so boring. Or is Qui-Gon the equivalent to the old Obi-Wan Kenobi? Well, he’s still boring.

Who’s the equivalent to Luke Skywalker? Is it Obi-Wan Kenobi? He’s almost wholly wasted in the film, never really given much of an opportunity to do anything. (The decision to leave him on the ship while stuff actually happened on Tatooine is utterly baffling.) Or is it Anakin? He’s just a kid and has a limited amount of character beyond being a kid.

Who’s the equivalent to Darth Vader? We don’t see Darth Sidious much, and Darth Maul is just a thug, really, whose job is it to lose a light saber fight, which he does, so that’s that.

It’s not Jar Jar who fails as a character, it’s ALL of them.

114

Darth Maul isn’t even a thug. Literally all we know is that he’s some guy who fights Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan. And even then, he seems to make an effort to make it a fair fight (like only using one blade of his lightsabre until he’s fighting both at once). For all we know, he’s got some legitimate beef with them.

115

Although the racial stereotypes in TPM were ridiculous (Jar Jar as a minstrel character, Boss Nass as an African Chieftain, the trade federation aliens as East Asians, the combination Jew/Italian digital character), I really think that Lucas was too blind to have meant it intentionally. I mean, here’s a guy who hasn’t had a good idea or made a wise decision since 1981. To this day Lucas thinks that Jar Jar was brilliant and everyone who hates him is wrong.

116

They added it in exactly the same place that the next movie says, “Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back,” and the same place that the one after that says, “Episode VI: Return of the Jedi.” If the actual title at the beginning of the movie doesn’t determine what a movie’s “real” name is, what does? The DVD box art?

117

Yes. I’m not sure why you’re confused. The title is always the name on the box. The thing you can see before you actually purchase it or open it. That’s why it’s there.

118

So, just to be clear - you’re arguing that the name of a movie I saw in a theater in 1981, is determined by the name they put on a DVD box thirty years later?

119

One might almost call him a phantom menace. :smiley: