Why is Kennedy from BtVS S7 so Reviled?

[LibrarySpy]

@SkipMagic

Besides, in “The Wish,” Willow Vamp had hooked up with Xander Vamp; I think that, if we’re going to look at “Doppelgangland” for the revelation of her being gay, we’d also have to look at “The Wish” to see that she was, at the very least, bi.

I don’t think you can dismiss the line as a throwaway, because Angel was clearly being honest, and in the same vein, I can’t dismiss “The Wish” even though I’d like to, since I believe it’s possible to establish Willow as gay and confused from the beginning, but that’s a rare interpretation of canon and I’ll find no support here.

Plus, other than being pretty, I couldn’t see what Willow saw in her.

Kennedy worshipped Willow. Possibly because Willow was so different from her, possibly because Willow was so powerful, or possibly because Willow was just darn pretty herself. Otherwise, why would Kennedy be so supportive in Killer? That’s way beyond the call of “casual thing to do while we’re hanging out around the house.” Willow probably found the attention flattering and pleasurable. I mean, were I Kennedy, I wouldn’t go after the damaged goods, especially not when Anya was available.

[WhyNot]

@Rysler

I don’t think you can dismiss the line as a throwaway, because Angel was clearly being honest, and in the same vein, I can’t dismiss “The Wish” even though I’d like to, since I believe it’s possible to establish Willow as gay and confused from the beginning, but that’s a rare interpretation of canon and I’ll find no support here.

You’ll get all sorts of support from me. Especially as Joss has repeatedly said in interviews that his intent from day one of planning the series was to have either Xander or Willow become gay. Neither Xander and Cordelia nor Xander and Anya were planned couplings, but the actors’ chemistry was so good that they ended up sticking. Which left Willow to be the gay one.

[Gorgon_Heap]

In all hosnesty I had no more problem with the character of Kennedy than I did with anything else in the season - not to say that was not considerable. However, I think it was more to do with the rushed pacing the whole season had and the addition of far, far, far too many seconday and tertiary characters.

I also had little trouble with Tara - I just think it took too long for her to grow up and act any way other than meek and stuttery.

Ask me, there is only one character in the entire series that could have gone for a complete rewrite, a quick death and/or a healthy dose of recasting, and that was Dawn.

[Gorgon_Heap]

Oh. WhyNot just reminded me of the utterly useless Anya as well.

Gag.

[WhyNot]

@Gorgon Heap

Oh. WhyNot just reminded me of the utterly useless Anya as well.

Gag.

sniff I’m not utterly useless like Anya!

[SkipMagic]

@Rysler

I don’t think you can dismiss the line as a throwaway, because Angel was clearly being honest…

Oh, sure, no quibble there. What I meant was that I see it as the writers putting it in there for a quick laugh, not as groundwork for the next season. Angel being honest only made it funnier. (Although I’m familiar with Whedon giving us hints for the next season during the current season, I guess I just don’t remain convinced this is what he was doing. It just seems so flimsy.)

Kennedy worshipped Willow. Possibly because Willow was so different from her, possibly because Willow was so powerful, or possibly because Willow was just darn pretty herself. Otherwise, why would Kennedy be so supportive in Killer? That’s way beyond the call of “casual thing to do while we’re hanging out around the house.” Willow probably found the attention flattering and pleasurable. I mean, were I Kennedy, I wouldn’t go after the damaged goods, especially not when Anya was available.

Yeah. Anya was certainly diggity-delicious, alright.

But if I were Willow? Once I got past being affirmed by Kennedy being into me, I would have pushed the girl aside. In fact, I’ll do that the next time I’m Willow.

@WhyNot

Especially as Joss has repeatedly said in interviews that his intent from day one of planning the series was to have either Xander or Willow become gay.

Do you recall where you saw/read those interviews?

[WhyNot]

@SkipMagic

Do you recall where you saw/read those interviews?

Sure, Entertainment Weekly, SciFi and some other genre rags. 'Twas long ago, but I will ask my hubby (who’s a Buffy scholar, believe it or not, and has dozens of Academic Texts (the volumey texts) on the matter for an accurate citation when he gets home. In the meantime, here’s some fun tidbits I drenched up for y’all on the “gayness” from Buffyguide.com :

Alyson Hannigan, interviewed in Cult Times magazine
Interviewed by: Thomasina Gibson (with John Binns)
July, 2000

The ‘provocative’ stuff refers, of course, to the romance between Willow and fellow student Tara (Amber Benson), which culminates with Willow making an arguably controversial decision late in Season Four. But Willow’s course of action is surprising only to those who watched last season with their eyes closed.

"I knew that I was going to have a friend and that we’d do witchcraft together and cast spells and I’d always asked if there was ‘something more’ to the relationship. Joss would always say, “Well, maybe there’s some subtext there” and then Amber and I would see some of the spells and we’d be like, “Joss – this is going way beyond “subtext”.”

Eventually, after weeks of tiptoeing round the issue, everyone concerned admitted that all roads led to the fact that the girls were in love which resulted in huge sighs of relief all round. "Amber and I were sort of in the same position as Willow and Tara in that for the longest time we weren’t sure what was going on … Then finally it was, “Great! It’s official. We’re in luurrvvve.”

Thoughtfully nodding her head, Hannigan sighs, "I think the way Joss developed the relationship was so sweet and wonderful. When some reporters ask about us they go, “Oooh! Lesbian affair!” but I say “No! It’s just two girls who are in love. It’s no different than when Willow fell for Oz really. It’s just a relationship, a very sweet friendship.”

<snip>

Before leaving the subject, Hannigan ventures that nothing is forever in a television situation and that there is no telling what will happen with Willow or her relationships in the future. “Right now, she is in love with Tara, who’s female, but I don’t know whether it means Willow’s gay. In fact - that’s what I want to know. I asked Joss and he said “Well, she’s open to new experiences.” But if it turns out that she is gay then it’s my belief that it’s just the same as me growing up liking boys. It’s just the way I’m built and if Willow knows what she’s attracted to and didn’t act on it till college because she didn’t feel comfortable with it, who am I to go against that?”

Joss Whedon, interviewed on Fresh Air on National Public Radio
Host: David Bianculli
May 9, 2000

Well, the arc between Willow and Tara has a long and sort of tortured history. We had thought about the idea of someone exploring their sexuality, expanding it a little bit, in college because that’s something that might happen in college.

David Fury (BtVS writer) at the Bronze
May 5, 2000

Willow didn’t TURN GAY. She fell in love with someone who happened to be the same sex.

Joss Whedon at the Bronze
May 4, 2000

Okay, let’s do this. For real: how @#$%&ing disappointed was I in the American public after Tuesday night? Of course I realize the rabidly homophobic posting contingent represents a smaller percentage of Americans than the EVIL GAYS they were posting about, but that’s not it. It’s the fact that everyone went nuts about it THIS WEEK, when this has clearly been going on for MONTHS? Did anyone see the spell scene in episode 16? Hello? It’s the not the bigotry that offends me, it’s the lack of filmic insight.

Okay, and the bigotry. But of course there were just as many voices raised in support of the arc as against, which was swell. Plus one post from a gay or questioning teen saying the show helped them is worth six hundred hate letters.

Amber Benson (Tara) at the Bronze
May 4, 2000

I hope people realize it’s only a show and there’s no need to be up in arms over the homosexual content. Love is beautiful whether it’s between a man and a woman or any variant of that combo.

Some of this “it’s not gay it’s luuurve” stuff didn’t hold up eventually. It’s pretty clear by *Him *in Season Seven that Willow is gay gay. Really gay. Wants to turn a hot guy into a hot girl to avoid that penis gay. But that was three years after these quotes, so I’ll cut Alyson and David some slack.

And here’s and interesting outline of the Willow gayness arc for the first four seasons.

RE: Willow and Kennedy directly, here’s an excerpt from a hugely large article that can be found at filmforce, that’s pretty relevant here. The Master (no, the non-evil one) speaks:

IGNFF: I can understand relationships tend not to work, but couldn’t one relationship work?

WHEDON: Well, Willow and Kennedy worked. Maybe you weren’t invested in that in the last one, but they were hanging at the end … One of my characters will still have a girlfriend when they cancelled the show, and it was Willow.

IGNFF: The Kennedy thing almost seemed more of a predatory relationship.

WHEDON: Kennedy is, as she herself said, a bit of a brat. What I wanted was an anti-Tara. I wanted somebody who was as different from Tara as possible. Tara was very reticent, and she was somebody that Willow caused to blossom. What I wanted was somebody who was further on down in dealing with her sexuality than Willow ever was. Somebody who was totally confident, who was totally not earthy-crunchy, who was a completely different person. What I wanted to explore was the concept of Willow moving on. We did that with the first kiss, that turned her into Warren. The first time they had sex, the things that Willow has to deal with emotionally, her fear of her power and stuff, and Kennedy’s kind of involvement in that. That’s what Kennedy was for.

IGNFF: In execution, it almost seemed like it was a predatory, stalker type, “I’m always here, you’re going to give in to me. You’re going to give in to me – I’m in your bed!” kind of relationship…

WHEDON: Well, it didn’t seem like that to me. It was more like, “I’m really cute. I think you’re cute and let’s get it on.” People are always like, “Oh, they didn’t even have a relationship.” They had a long talk about, “When did you come out?” and this whole thing at the Bronze that we had never done with Tara, that we very deliberately saying, “Okay, they’re starting a relationship.” What I was interested in was Willow’s guilt, that her life could go on, that her love life could go on after Tara, because that’s a part of living. Quite frankly, that was not plan A. Plan A was to bring Tara back.

IGNFF: I heard there were some failed discussions about that.

WHEDON: Amber didn’t want to do it. She wanted to do other things. I had a whole – I used to tell people, “Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to have her in a couple of flashbacks, keep her alive, and then at the end …” I had a whole show figured out that ended with the return of Tara. I used to cry every time I pitched it. It was going to be Tara’s her one true love, people are going to be blown away, they’ll never see it coming – except on the Internet – and it’s going to be just about the biggest thing. Quite frankly, Amber just didn’t want to do it – which is her decision. I was like, “Okay, the thing where I cried, and we all cried, and I told you about? That’s gone. So, instead, we’re going to go out and find somebody really hot, and we’re going to make this about moving on, because that’s the only option we have. I don’t want Willow stuck in typical gay celibacy on TV. I’m interested in where her heart will go once she’s lost her true love, so let’s do that instead.” So, you know, hence Kennedy.

[Bricker]

@WhyNot

…but I will ask my hubby (who’s a Buffy scholar, believe it or not, and has dozens of Academic Texts (the volumey texts) on the matter for an accurate citation when he gets home.

Check the Muroomifer Report. It’s probably in there.

[Telemark]

@Cliffy

I wonder if the people who think Limon is a lousy actress are also people who are generally not attracted to women.

On the contrary, I think Kennedy is extremely hot, just not a very good actress. She’s drop-dead gorgeous IMO, but just not capable of portraying “falling” if you pushed her off a cliff. I think that the character’s lines and situations were just so badly written didn’t help.

But she’s great eye candy.

[Nonsuch]

Ugh. I didn’t like either of them.

Tara was sweet. And nice. And cute when she got all shy and stammery. Just like Willow. She was so much like Willow, in fact, that she added very little to the dynamic of the gang, and so came across as a spare part most of the time. Her deranged hillbilly family did add some interest, but it seemed to be an issue that reared its head once or twice and was then forgotten; it left no resonance within the show.

I think Joss missed the chance to make something really interesting out of that character. Instead of another shy, mousy type, I would’ve loved to see Willow fall for a punky chick with green hair and tattoos, someone more extroverted and offbeat but who still had that core of warmth that Willow responds to. Willow and Tara together are too sweet, too adorable; even their arguments were cute.

And Kennedy? She was just awful. What a miscalculation. Everyone knows it’s the last season—let’s not only add a bunch of new characters, but let’s make one a self-centered, pushy snob, and focus on her just as the series is coming to a close and everyone wants to see the regulars as much as possible.

[Cliffy]

@Nonsuch

Ugh. I didn’t like either of them.

Tara was sweet. And nice. And cute when she got all shy and stammery. Just like Willow.

Well except Willow wasn’t like that anymore. Look at her in early S4 – she’s like a lot of college kids who were nerds in high school and have decided to throw that off. Plus, a lot of Oz’s cool has rubbed off on her.

–Cliffy

[LindyHopper]

@Gorgon Heap

Oh. WhyNot just reminded me of the utterly useless Anya as well.

Gag.

Useless? She’s hilarious! OK, yeah, maybe she didn’t push the plot forward much, but does every character have to do that? Can’t we just have some old-fashioned comedy relief? Plus, she’s hot.

As for Kennedy, I think Rysler had it. People (particularly rabid fans) are resistant to change. Now personally, I didn’t start watching the show until after it’d been cancelled (on DVD), so I don’t have the perspective of watching fan reactions change in real time. However, it seems like people didn’t like Tara initially (the Oz thing, and the meek/stuttery thing), but warmed up to her eventually. Kennedy wasn’t given as much time as Tara was to develop as a character. If they’d made it to season 9 or 10, people might be singing a very different tune.

Oh, and Bricker: snerk

[Push_You_Down]

If the character of Kennedy was a man he would have been called sleazy, manipulative and a potential rapist. I see no reason to look at the female Kennedy any differently.
I really liked a lot of the potentials (Vi was especially cute and charismatic and Amy was just awesome). Kennedy was atrocious and never had any redeeming moments.

[LibrarySpy]

@Nonsuch

I think Joss missed the chance to make something really interesting out of that character. Instead of another shy, mousy type, I would’ve loved to see Willow fall for a punky chick with green hair and tattoos, someone more extroverted and offbeat but who still had that core of warmth that Willow responds to.

Kennedy basically fits that profile. She’s a punk, she’s an extrovert, and she’s incredibly tender to Willow. You didn’t specify non-stalker!

WhyNot, ah the memories. I remember Joss’s anger at all the bigotry, and Amber’s sadness at getting threats and being called names right after New Moon Rising. The days when you find out your community isn’t as evolved as you thought it was are awful.

@SkipMagic

But if I were Willow? Once I got past being affirmed by Kennedy being into me, I would have pushed the girl aside. In fact, I’ll do that the next time I’m Willow.

Right! Kennedy’s the perfect rebound. She doesn’t have to be anything more than that. She’s just killing time until (Oz/Tara/Buffy/Faith/Xander/Anya/Mary Sue) comes back.

[JohnT]

How can you not love Tara?

I never cared for Kennedy, as the entire Potential thing detracted from the Scoobies as the series wound down. However, I will always like Iyari Limon who, during a Buffy convention in Cleveland OH, played hide and seek with my little (two year-old) girl for about 15 minutes, causing Sophie to go into a fit of the giggles. She was full of praise for Sophie (“You’re little girl is so cute… I love her laugh!”), which, to a doting dad, is akin to feeding crack to the monkey.

Sophie also has (most probably) the only Barney doll signed by James Marsters.

[kung_fu_lola]

@Nonsuch

Tara was sweet. And nice. And cute when she got all shy and stammery. Just like Willow. She was so much like Willow, in fact, that she added very little to the dynamic of the gang, and so came across as a spare part most of the time. Her deranged hillbilly family did add some interest, but it seemed to be an issue that reared its head once or twice and was then forgotten; it left no resonance within the show.

I disagree. Cliffy already pointed out that Willow wasn’t like that, she had grown past it. Willow and Tara balanced each other out; Willow had more natural self-esteem and Tara had more magic (in the beginning, anyway).
As for the hillbilly family, leaving them behind was the point. Watch Family again; it’s clear that when Tara rejects her father et al, she’s turning her back on them forever. She cries because she is grateful for the protection of the Scoobs, and she is relieved that she is free, but she’s also crying because she knows they will never be a part of her life again. IMO, the resonance in the show was Tara’s “adoption” of Dawn, it sealed her choice to make the Scoobs her family now.
Tara’s role in the gang was a lot like Xander’s in that she was a “support person”. As Xander became more action-oriented, Tara filled in his place as the passive one who applies the poultices.

I think Joss missed the chance to make something really interesting out of that character. Instead of another shy, mousy type, I would’ve loved to see Willow fall for a punky chick with green hair and tattoos, someone more extroverted and offbeat but who still had that core of warmth that Willow responds to. Willow and Tara together are too sweet, too adorable; even their arguments were cute.

As much as Kennedy irks me, take away the green hair and you described Kennedy as she came across onscreen. Maybe what you call “snobby” was meant to come across as “extroverted”.
Iyari is too self-conscious at this moment in her career. My drama teachers used to talk to us about the difference between “acting” and “ACK-TING”. Guess which one Iyari does.

[JThunder]

The Kennedy-Willow romance seemed completely forced. Plus, she just didn’t show up on my lesbi-dar.

[kung_fu_lola]

Yeah, she did get turned down for that part of The L Word… huh.

[LindyHopper]

@JThunder

Plus, she just didn’t show up on my lesbi-dar.

OK, you know there’s actually another word for that, right?

[shy_guy]

I hate Kennedy for reasons pretty much already mentioned. She was an awful addition to an amazingly bloated cast during a season in which the writing quality of the show had itself taken a swan dive into the Hellmouth.

Resistant to change? Nah. Willow’s relationship with Tara didn’t bother me (although the fact that Willow constantly refers to herself as “gay” instead of “bi,” which she clearly is, does bug me, but I chalk it up to her wanting to be assertive with her new identity out of an eagerness to have a new, somewhat edgy way to define herself, which I think fits with her personality quite well). What does bother me is the implication on the part of the writers that in order for Willow to have a happy ending she necessarily had to end up in a relationship, no matter how hastily crafted or just plain unwise on Willow’s part (Willow brutally tortured and murdered her girlfriend’s murderer a year ago; girl ain’t ready for another relationship yet).