Why is my cake falling?

Cafe Society
1

I knew cakes could fall, it’s a joke in old sitcoms. However, I’d never seen it happen.

I don’t bake often, but I’ve made enough cakes (from both scratch and mix) that I wasn’t too concerned about making a cake, some are better than others, but none of them have ever been disasters. I thought I’d make this: Mary Berry's Victoria Sponge - The Great British Bake Off | The Great British Bake Off - it seemed pretty straightforward. I’m only one person, so I quartered the recipe and used two 4" pans instead of two 8" pans (which, according to math, should work). I’ve tried it twice and each time it’s been a crater in the center of the cake.
The first time I used self-rising flour, but I found out that’s different than self-raising flour. So then I used a self-raising flour substitute (normal flour and baking powder). And it was worse.

Any reason that this might happen? I’m putting it in the oven quickly. It’s already sunk by the time I open the oven door. The cake batter seems a little thick, but not crazily so. If I can get this recipe to work, it would be great for making a nice cake for myself pretty quickly.

2

I’m not a dessert-cooking person, but my WAG is that since you’re drastically changing the quantities and dimensions of the cake, you may need to adjust the cooking time and/or temperature.

3

Is your baking powder good? If it’s not fresh, you can test it to see if it’s still good.

Check your measurements again. The recipe says it shouldn’t be thick, so it seems like something might be off. Mix it gently when you add the dry ingredients, just enough so you don’t have streaks in the batter.

Is your oven temperature right? If you don’t have one, get an oven thermometer. I don’t think you need to change the temperature.

I hope this helps. This recipe is on my list of things I want to try, so I’ll check back if I have a chance to make it.

4

I’d also try making it using the measurements specified in the original recipe. Cake freezes well - just wrap one layer up well in cling wrap and use it another day. You can cut the other in half, or crossways through the middle if you really want it to be round (and hey, more filling!).

5

Very tiny nitpick. The sitcom trope isn’t a falling cake, but a falling souffle, which (at least according to sitcoms) will fall at the slightest noise or vibration in the kitchen. The classic example being from The Mary Tyler Moore show when Sue Ann is making a souffle and Phyllis (who was mad at her) opened the oven door and slammed it shut, causing it to fall.

My random suggestion is to make sure your baking soda/baking powder is still good. There’s ways you can test it (adding it to vinegar or water IIRC) to see if it bubbles. But personally, if I’m having issues with things not rising properly, I just buy a new baking soda/powder. They’re so cheap and it takes me so long to go through them, it’s usually a good troubleshooting step.
If you’re up for it, maybe trying making something different. A different cake or some cookies or even bread and see if it rising properly, if it does, it’s a reasonable assumption that all your ingredients are good.

A very quick glance at the recipe shows baking powder but no salt (and unsalted butter). Maybe mixing some salt with the baking powder and flour and adding that mixture to the wet ingredients would help. Or even substituting baking soda and salt in place of baking powder (but look up the conversion), since, off the top of my head, I’m thinking you generally don’t need salt to activate baking powder.

6

I just noticed that the recipes calls for caster sugar. Are you using that, or did you substitute another kind of sugar?

7

Here’s a recipe that has a little salt and a little extra baking powder: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/may/16/how-bake-perfect-victoria-sponge-cake

8

Self-raising (I could not find any sources that suggested that self-rising and self-raising flour were any different) flour already has baking powder in it, and a wee bit of salt (US versions anyway), so more salt shouldn’t be necessary. Make sure the baking powder you are getting the additional teaspoon from is fresh-it can get old and ineffective. Forget switching in baking soda-they are not completely interchangeable.

Caster sugar would be important-a sponge cake is a delicate structure and sugar finer than granulated may create a more satisfactory structure. In the US self-rising (-raising) flour also has a slightly ‘softer’ wheat protein blend, which could make it easier for the cake batter to support itself and not crater.

Changing the pans so drastically could also be changing too many aspects, it isn’t just the math of the total volume, it is also the physics and chemistry.

The idea of making the recipe as stated, in the specified pans, with fresh baking powder and self-raising flour is a great idea-then eat that 2nd 8inch layer out of the freezer in a few weeks. If that works, than maybe chance halving the recipe, but not quartering, so it can be baked in the specified pan.

9

Thanks for the suggestions.
To answer some questions:

  • it is a brand new can of baking powder. I tend to go on a baking kick and then stop for a while, so I bought this knowing that the can(s) in my pantry might be way too old. I should test it anyway instead of just assuming.

  • I’m using baker’s sugar/ultrafine sugar which is apparently the equivalent of caster sugar.

  • I found a couple of sites like this:

http://www.deliberatefare.com/simulate/british-self-raising-flour-and-american-self-rising-flour

Apparently self-raising has more baking powder & no salt v. less baking powder and salt.

  • the main reason I thought changing the pans would work is something I read a long time ago in Joy of Cooking (I think?) that the key is surface area, so you can change shapes or even numbers of pans so long as the total surface area is the same. So, by that logic, two 8 in cakes has the same surface area as eight 4" cakes. Therefore, I should be able to quarter it to get two 4" cakes. I’ve done similar things in the past (not with this recipe, obviously) and it’s been fine.
    I will probably try making the whole recipe - except I know that I will never, ever, ever eat the remainder of the cake. If I freeze it, 2 years from now, I’ll find a half cake in my freezer. But it does sound like the next step.
10

Thanks for the info on self-rising vs. raising. Your Google fu was better than mine.

How about sharing half of the cake with a neighbor? Set it on the doorstep, ring the bell, scoot back home and watch their smile when they discover the happy surprise? In these times we can all use some happy, kind surprises.

Whatever you do, don’t deprive yourself of a bit of cake! :cake::cupcake:

11

I think it’s one of

  • the temperature of your oven is off.
  • you might be over-leavening the cake.
  • the sugar you are using isn’t the same size and so gives a different consistency.
  • you aren’t beating the egg enough, due to only adding one.

It’s always tricky to adjust for ingredients you don’t have. And cutting this by 4 does change the timing of the mixing process.

Are you sure the cake is done when you remove it from the oven? An underdone cake isn’t strong enough to hold itself up, and will fall. If your oven is too hot, it might brown before the center is done. If your oven is too cool, it might just be undercooked at the recipe’s time.

If the baking powder were old, it wouldn’t rise at all, you wouldn’t see if fall in the center, which is what you describe. I’ve replaced old baking powder because stuff wasn’t rising enough, but I’ve never had something fall from old baking powder. In fact, it’s more likely to fall from too much leavening, if the cake rises too high and then collapses.

I always wrestle with recipes that call for caster sugar, because it’s not exactly like any of the common sugars in the US. But yeah, “ultra fine” is the closest. It’s probably okay. I might see what happens if you use regular granulated sugar. My guess is a slightly coarser, but acceptable texture.

I don’t think it’s the size of the pans. I’ve changed the size of cake pans. In particular, I have two smaller (5" and 7") circular pans which together have close to the same area as a standard 9" pan. (25+49 = 74 ~ 81) and I’ve made one standard recipe (intended for two layers of 9" pans) in the three pans a few times to make a mini-wedding cake, and it’s always worked fine. You are more likely to have the cake fall from a pan that’s larger than what recipe called for (say, if you double the recipe) because the center may not be fully cooked when you take it out of the oven. Cupcakes rarely fall, and you make them with the same batter you use for a regular cake.

I will comment that that’s an odd recipe. I’ve baked a lot of cakes, and I’ve never added the butter LAST. Is the butter really soft when you add it? is it properly mixed through? Oh – and UK egg sizes aren’t the same as US sizes. Google tells me that in the UK, a large egg weighs 63-73 grams, whereas a large egg in the US is 57 grams, and an extra-large egg 64 grams and a jumbo egg is 71 grams. Also, most US cake recipes call for some milk or water, which gelatinizes the flour some and helps develop the texture. This is an oddball recipe, being basically a pound cake (a pound each of butter, flour, sugar, and eggs) scaled down to 225g of each ingredient, with added leavening. Only… oddly, 4 US large eggs would be about 225 grams, and this recipe calls for a bit more.

So, adapted from the cake Bible (Rose Levy Beranbaum) and some pound cake recipes I found on-line, Here’s a recipe for the sponge using all American ingredients that should be similar to that one:

225g granulated sugar or extra-fine sugar, plus extra for sprinkling
225g unsalted butter, softened, plus extra for greasing
4 extra large eggs
225g cake flour
1 Tbsp (3 teaspoons) baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt

Mix the flour, baking powder, and salt in a medium bowl until well distributed.

In a large bowl, sugar, and butter and mix well, for about 2 minutes.
Add the eggs, one and a time, and mix for about 30 seconds after each addition, scraping down the sides each time.
Then turn the mixer to slow, and gradually add the flour.

Cook as per Mary Berry’s recipe, at 350F, or 320F in a convection oven, for about 25 minutes. (But start peeking at 15 or 20 minutes, in case it cooks faster, since you are cutting the recipe)

(Note that Beranbaum would have you use a little milk or water to gelatenize the flour, and would add the ingredients in yet a different order. But maybe that’s more of a change from the recipe than you want.)

Hmmm, let’s try that at 1/4

55g granulated sugar or extra-fine sugar, plus extra for sprinkling
55g unsalted butter, softened, plus extra for greasing
1 extra large eggs
55g cake flour
3/4 teaspoon baking powder
pinch of salt (or use salted butter, and don’t add any salt)

Mix the flour, baking powder, and salt in a medium bowl until well distributed.
Break the egg into a small bowl or large cup, and stir it to mix it around gently.

In a large mixing bowl, add the sugar and butter and mix well, for about 2 minutes.
Add half the egg, and mix for about 45 seconds, Scrape down the sides, then add the rest of the egg and mix for another minute or or a bit more. You need to beat the batter for a bit after adding the egg to develop the structure – the egg protein is doing the bulk of the work of holding the structure and containing the gas released by the baking powder.
Then turn the mixer to slow, and gradually add the flour mixture.

etc.

Good luck.

12

The small pans should work. The pans should be 1/2 to 2/3rds full. My small cake pans are shorter than the full-size cake pans, so I ended up using more cake pans.

13

The recipe from the OP may be off. Here’s another BBC website from the same BBC Bake-off Mary Berry Victoria Sponge, but it calls for 2 tsps of baking powder, not 1.

14

I tested my baking soda (it was fine). I tested my oven temperature. It was inconsistent. (Sugar started to melt at 355, mostly melted at 360 & 370, but 365 looked like 355. So it’s off - but not crazily off, and could be anywhere between 5 & 10 degrees wrong).

I then tried the whole cake - and it had a small dimple. No crater, but it definitely wasn’t what I expect from a cake. And so I tried the small one again - this time adding no extra baking powder (just enough for the substitute for not having self-raising flour). And I watched it bake (stood in front of the oven with the light on. I did not open the oven door to check on it), which is a thing I don’t think I’ve ever done before. The centers fully rose, but fell a bit before they were cooked - so, again, a slight dimple.

I’m giving up.

And I have way too much cake.

I then tried to make scones from that same GBBO website - On the good side, they rose. On the bad, they were half raw. (3cm in height seemed rather too thick for 6cm scones. I was right)

15

Did you see my post right before yours where I pointed out the amount of baking powder might be off by half?

16

I did.
And with two conflicting recipes, I really didn’t know which one would work. I went with the “more baking powder” and that did not turn out correctly. So if someone else tries to make this, the correct answer is likely the version that @needscoffee linked to.