Why is Saudi Arabia killing a journalist such a big issue

[Johnny_L.A]

@GreenWyvern

• For decades Khashoggi was a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, and supported Islamist government throughout the Middle East.

Doesn’t Saudi Arabia have in Islamist government? As the location of Mecca, isn’t Saudi Arabia ‘The Home of Islam’?

[Gatopescado]

@alphaboi867

Well multiple little diplomatic pouches are a lot less conspicuous than one large, body-bag shaped one.

I’d hate to be the poor diplomat that has to carry out the diplomatic bowling bag. :o

@EscAlaMike

Trump came out and basically said, “yeah they’re evil, but cha-ching!”

Remarkably, one of the few times he has been remotely honest.

[PastTense]

OP: Note this is just a big issue to journalists, politicians and political junkies. For the rest of us local issues (“woman killed while jogging”, “autistic child goes missing”, “young girl and her mother killed in fire”…) are much more important.

[Kimera757]

@Johnny_L.A

Doesn’t Saudi Arabia have in Islamist government? As the location of Mecca, isn’t Saudi Arabia ‘The Home of Islam’?

The Muslim Brotherhood wants to establish an Islamic government via democracy, although they might only allow one vote (the one that gets them in).

They did exactly this in Egypt, only to be eventually forced out by a secular military government instead.

The Saudi government is not a democracy. They couldn’t get along with the Muslim Brotherhood despite having some political beliefs in common.

@Alessan

Because it’s not relevant.

These connections strike me as very relevant. Generally motive is relevant in a murder.

[GreenWyvern]

@Johnny_L.A

Doesn’t Saudi Arabia have in Islamist government? As the location of Mecca, isn’t Saudi Arabia ‘The Home of Islam’?

Well, it all depends on your definition of Islamism. Saudi Arabia is a Salafi state, which has major differences with the Muslim Brotherhood, who are often called Islamists. Basically Salafis are traditionalists (with their own austere and ultraconservative definition of tradition), and the Muslim Brotherhood wants Islamic reform and a political model that does not depend on dictators or authoritarian government. But they still want Sharia law.

From Wikipedia:

The relationship between the notions of Islam and Islamism has been subject to disagreement.

Hayri Abaza argues that the failure to distinguish between Islam and Islamism leads many in the West to support illiberal Islamic regimes, to the detriment of progressive moderates who seek to separate religion from politics.[36] In contrast, Abid Ullah Jan, writes “If Islam is a way of life, how can we say that those who want to live by its principles in legal, social, political, economic, and political spheres of life are not Muslims, but Islamists and believe in Islamism, not [just] Islam.”[37] A writer for the International Crisis Group maintains that “the conception of ‘political Islam’” is a creation of Americans to explain the Iranian Islamic Revolution and apolitical Islam was a historical fluke of the “short-lived era of the heyday of secular Arab nationalism between 1945 and 1970”, and it is quietist/non-political Islam, not Islamism, that requires explanation.[38]

Another source distinguishes Islamist from Islamic “by the fact that the latter refers to a religion and culture in existence over a millennium, whereas the first is a political/religious phenomenon linked to the great events of the 20th century”. Islamists have, at least at times, defined themselves as “Islamiyyoun/Islamists” to differentiate themselves from “Muslimun/Muslims”.[39] Daniel Pipes describes Islamism as a modern ideology that owes more to European utopian political ideologies and “isms” than to the traditional Islamic religion.[40]

[Nars_Glinley]

@PastTense

OP: Note this is just a big issue to journalists, politicians and political junkies. For the rest of us local issues (“woman killed while jogging”, “autistic child goes missing”, “young girl and her mother killed in fire”…) are much more important.

I agree with this. There were quite a few beheadings in the early part of the century (there might still be) but I’d be very surprised if people recognized the names of any of the victims other than Daniel Pearl.

[AK84]

@Grim_Render

Thing is, such regimes care less and less about being blamed. That is the frightening reality. In face they may consider the deterrence effect of being known to do such things to be more valuable that whatever weak political pushback they were expecting.

Yes. Exactly. What monsters murder their own citizens over political differences. :rolleyes:

[Catsie]

@EscAlaMike

The issue is American hypocrisy.

Saudi Arabia is both one of the most oppressive governments in the world, and our closest military ally in the Muslim world.

We also have a massive arms deal with them in which they purchase, what, over $100 million (or is it billion) worth from us.

Trump came out and basically said, “yeah they’re evil, but cha-ching!”

This.

I had the same question as Wesley Clark, and I followed the string, and it led me to A) arms sales and B) an excuse for Congress to create a kerfuffle for the citizenry to vote for/against their Rep in Nov, i.e. to agree or disagree with in the matter, like the citizens don’t already have enough issues to kvetch over, and C) Trump’s need to perpetually stir up furor and create distraction.

Sending the SECSTATE over there is stupid. But that’s Trump for you.

It remains to be seen what happens next. Because at this point, the US shouldn’t have a dog in this fight beyond common or garden variety concern for human rights.

And yes, the deal is for billions, but I can’t recall the amount. (The site where I posted my thing is down, or I’d check.)

[running_coach]

@AK84

Yes. Exactly. What monsters murder their own citizens over political differences. :rolleyes:

From your cite.

Two U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity stated that the target of the October 14, 2011, airstrike was Ibrahim al-Banna, an Egyptian believed to be a senior operative in Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.[8] Another U.S. administration official speaking on condition of anonymity described Abdulrahman al-Awlaki as a bystander who was “in the wrong place at the wrong time,” stating that “the U.S. government did not know that Mr. Awlaki’s son was there” before the airstrike was ordered.

You also don’t seem upset that his half sister was killed by Trump. (Same source)

[AK84]

@running_coach

You also don’t seem upset that his half sister was killed by Trump. (Same source)

You realise that that does not make it better?

[madmonk28]

The Saudis only murdered a journalist in the consulate, so the GOP doesn’t have to respond. If the Saudis had performed an abortion, then there would have been repercussions.

America’s addiction to cheap oil makes us complicit in this murder and lots of other crimes in the world. We’re not an introspective people, so this will pass.

[JohnT]

I think the fact that the Republican President is engaging in a murder coverup to protect cash flows to his private businesses would be of interest to a lot of people, tbh.

[madmonk28]

@JohnT

I think the fact that the Republican President is engaging in a murder coverup to protect cash flows to his private businesses would be of interest to a lot of people, tbh.

You would be mistaken. We are already talking about Elizabeth Warren’s DNA, Trump calling a porn star horseface and that time Obama put Dijon mustard on his burger.

[JohnT]

Because people talk about the other things doesn’t mean they’re not talking about this. :rolleyes:

[madmonk28]

People are not talking about this. There will be no consequences for the murder. There will be no consequences for Trump’s blood money. I find the fact that people think that murder, corruption and bribery are issues that American voters care about adorably naïve.

[running_coach]

@AK84

You realise that that does not make it better?

Didn’t say that. I pointed out that you didn’t care if a Republican President did it.

[mbh]

If the Saudis fall, what replaces them?

The Muslim Brotherhood?
Ba’athists?
The Sunni version the ayatollahs?

I don’t see any good options on the horizon.

[AK84]

@running_coach

Didn’t say that. I pointed out that you didn’t care if a Republican President did it.

Where the actual fuck did I say that?

Your argument can be summed up as well its better to kill a 16 year old boy than an 8 year old girl

[Ravenman]

@AK84

You realise that that does not make it better?

I think you need to pick a side as to whether you support the assassination of non-violent people or not, rather than using any unjust killing to fuel more of your comments in disdain for America.

[Ruken]

@madmonk28

People are not talking about this.

There’s been an article in the WSJ every day since the story broke. The randos we were playing video games with online this weekend were talking about.