Why is success so "Hard to handle"?

Great Debates
1

Darryl Strawberry’s recurring drug problem brought to mind the excuse that’s often given when athletes and entertainers fall into addiction: “He/She just couldn’t handle the success.” I thought about that for a while, and it got me to wondering:

  1. Why is success so hard to handle? I mean, for most of the people in question, success is what they’d been after all their lives! Drugs and alcohol and similar vices are an escape from reality…but why would a successful person wish to escape?

  2. Why does this seem to be limited to the areas of sports and entertainment? I mean, I’ve never heard of a successful busimessman or politician drowning their sorrows (or whatever) in such things (well, except for Boris Yelstin). Yes, people in those areas aren’t perfect, they have their vices, but none of them seem to be attempting to “escape their success.”

Any insights?

2

My two cents-

If I become very successful, several things could happen. I will now have lots of money, with my normal expenses taken care of. I will also have lots of people around me who won’t say boo to me no matter what I do, which will make me feel at least somewhat bulletproof. Other people may let me skate on things that would get another person in trouble (tickets, arrests, etc.)

So off I go in search of a good time, as behooves someone in my lofty position. Maybe I already had a small habit or two, but with time & money on my hands, plus a lot of people I want to entertain & impress, my habit will now approach gargantuan proportions. In fact, many people seem to expect me to act in an irresponsible manner, so it self-fulfills.

If I am an athlete, it may be worse. Ever since I was a child & someone saw that I could hit, shoot or tackle, I have been getting over. I didn’t have to get good grades, because the coaches would lean on the teachers and I would pass. I was allowed to, and in some cases expected to, break rules with impunity. My talent meant that I never had to develop any sense of moral obligation, good sense, or responsibility. Now hand me a boatload of cash & turn me loose- I will go nuts.

And don’t forget- once I’m hooked, I’m fucked.

While the inner addict feels badly for these people, the woman who has fought for everything she has says “tough shit, spoiled brat.” But is it really the fault of the athlete, or can we lay some blame at the feet of the people who molded this person and never held them accountable?

If you’re a celebrity or rock star, can you ever be ready to deal with the yes-men and hangers-on that come with your fame? Was it at all what you expected? Probably not. Are you equipped to deal with the “money managers” and con artists who will tell you what you want to hear and then eat you up?

And remember, there are plenty of athletes and others who handle themselves very well in their situations. But the idiots sell newspapers & boost ratings.

Gee, I guess I have an opinion or two on this… :slight_smile:

3

And notice that the addiction problems are almost always with heroin, cocaine, or some other drug that is outrageously expensive in large quantities. It’s never something cheap, like alcohol or cigarettes or sniffing glue. The moola that rolls in when the celebrity is successful, I’m sure, facilitates this.

4

I’d WAG that success isn’t all its cracked up to be. Thats a fact that you can get used to when you build up money over a period of time, but not when you are rocketed towards sucess.

And entetainers (includeing sports players) know that their flame can last only so long. A businessperson can keep doing what they do forever, but entertainers eventually fall out of favor. Most business people don’t get a stigma attached to their face or their name. They can walk down the street and be taken as a normal person. In that aspect I would say fame is harder than fortune.

5

God complex. didn’tja see Kevin Bacon’s Invisible Man?

It takes a very mature person to be wise and humble about values and who you are and what’s important.

Having a butt-load of money pretty much means you can do anything, even break laws and get away with it. Doesn’t make you a better person, and if you are already rotten it’ll make you worse. My wife’s ex-father-in-law is a millionaire lottery winner and a major league “I can rule all of you little people” asshole. I can’t WAIT till his money runs out and he returns to his humble beginnings.

6

I think part of the problem is that a lot of entertainers, in particular, don’t set out to be the ‘biggest in the world’, or whatever they’re stuck with, and if they do end up there, it can seem much too surreal to deal with.

An example is a couple of quotes from one of my favourite singers, Eddie Vedder from Pearl Jam. Firstly, he has said that if he was a teenager, and saw this guy’s face on every magazine cover (as Vedder’s was), he would have hated that guy. A lot of us are uneasy if there are people out there disliking us, particularly people we don’t get to meet so we can set them straight (think about this message board and how it can feel to be flamed). Knowing that as many people hate you as love you can be hard - and you’re also always aware that the ‘love’ is not of you as a person, but as an image/name/whatever.

The second thing Eddie Vedder talked about was that one of the best things he could imagine would be to invite interested strangers around to his house to sit around with him and his wife and listen to records. Unfortunately, because he’s had death threats and stalkers (things that only came about through his fame), he has to live behind a locked gate, and have security around his house.

Lou Reed wrote a wonderful essay about the pitfalls of fame in 1971 - I’ll see if I can find it on the net somewhere so you can read the opinion of someone who at the time was on the brink of fame.

HenrySpencer

7

I think boredom also contibutes to these kinds of problems. The successful business person is busy. The successful rock star is busy for a while, then gets a six month vacation. Because they’re so rich, there’s nothing they HAVE to do. They don’t have to clean the house, or fix the car, or sift the litter box. (Yes, I want to be rich so I can pay someone to sift the litter box!)

People who are wealthy all their lives tend to be adapted to this kind of life. But someone who isn’t prepared for it will be at loose ends. They want to do something fun, so they think, “I’ll party!” So they throw wild parties, and go to wild parties, and get drunk every night. And they take a few drugs, then they take more drugs, and as tracer pointed out, they can afford the very “best” drugs. Pretty soon they have their own VH1 special.

It’s hard to imagine someone rich and famous being bored, but many of these people are devoted to one thing. The star athlete may only be interested in that sport. The actor is only interested in acting. That single minded interest in one thing can lead to success. But once that person is successful, they have nothing to do in their free time.

8

I think lesa has a good point.

The vast majority of us are brought up to work, our education systems are simply a means for equipping us to do this, there is much less emphasis on enlightenment and self-fulfillment except perhaps through materialistic things such as gaining the skills to earn loads of money.

As such we are not well equipped to deal with our leisure time or with the ability to pretty much do as we would like whenever we choose.This kind of life has little routine or discipline.

There is a group who handle their version of success even more badly than the stars IMHO and that is the criminal who may pull off a robbery or some other illegal wealth gathering activity who is right back where they stared after a few days or weeks of excess.

Wealthy businesspersons are often from backgrounds that are more used to dealing with money. Directors of companies are used to assessing risk and factors affecting performance, they will understand how easy success is to lose and what the consequencies are likely to be not just fo themselves but for those around them.

I wonder if we ourselves are not part of the problem since we place all the expectations on people who are not equipped to cope.

The toadies who are interested in their short-term wage packets are not interested in the welfare of the star and would not risk losing a chance to grab some of the gold by offending said star, after all there are plenty of other toadies who are willing to replace them.
Perhaps it is because of our exclusive respect for wealth above the intrinsic value of the person that is at the root of much of it.

Wrath
Not jealous of your ex-in law are you ? :wink:

9

Actually never met the man. Only know him through my wife’s and stepchildren’s stories. But… no… not jealous. Uh uh.

Alright! I admit it! Damn you!

10

I read an interesting quote (by whom, I can’t remember) that said, “Success doesn’t ruin men, it unmasks them.”

I think this is appropriate in that lack of money sometimes enforces morality in us simply through its lack: we can’t afford $1,000 hookers, we can’t afford the “good” drugs, etc. So, we make do or do without. However, money opens many doors, some that probably should have remained closed.
Also, there isn’t the societal pressure regarding avoidance of bad behavior as there used to be in the past (I’m thinking of the shame factor). People seem used to the idea of “immoral” behavior on some level, especially from celebrities. We condone and coddle them and expect them to be larger than life in every way.

11

Where did I hear that quote about “found” power vs. “earned” power?

For example, having a black belt means that a person has worked hard & sacrificed to achieve a certain level of power or expertise. Someone buying a handgun has also achieved a certain level of power with the purchase. But the black belt’s sacrifice and long hours have tempered him/her, so that although he/she is indeed a lethal weapon, he/she probably won’t kill anybody, as opposed to the person who hasn’t worked to achieve the power,has nothing invested in the process, and may shoot the gun casually with no regard for consequences.

The point? A hard worker (read: earned the money, didn’t get it given to them) may be more likely to be a better money manager than a lottery winner or trust fund baby. In fact, winning the lottery can be the quickest route to bankrupcy for many.

Oh I know where the quote was- “Jurassic Park” by Michael Crichton. It was referring to people who stand on the shoulders of giants to achieve the next level, rather than climbing the mountain themselves.

12

(using my SO’s computer)
Ah, yes, a topic near and dear to me…
I actually have known quite a few ‘run of the mill’ folks who cannot seem to handle success.
yes, Substance abuse seems to be a factor with damn near all of them. BUT, soemtimes, even the person was in recovery…

With the ones I knew well enough to have an idea of how they grew up, it seemed some of the factors that are common with substance abuse - like feelings of inadequacy and so on became more of a factor.

I’ve seen 2 1/2 lawyers bottom out (yes, also on alcohol), three counselors, business executives etc.

Many of those were clients. One was a close personal friend, so I watched, in sadness, his descent into depression. He’d struggled from a working class family, went to Viet Nam, became addicted to variety of stuff, got sober, became well respected in his field, went back to college, got a Masters’ degree in Counseling, got hired with the State, was married to a lovely younger woman, had two little adorable boys, and it wasn’t enough to make him feel worthwhile. He committed suicide when his kids were 6 and 3.

The whys are as many and varied as the individuals involved. Some never get out of it. Some do. That’s what keeps me going.

13

Suzanne Curchod Necker (1739-1794):

14

It is also possible that without his talent at baseball, and great fortune in professional sports Darryl Strawberry would have become a drugged up jailbird you never heard of. Blaming it on success is his excuse, which doesn’t mean it is the real reason.

Not every junkie asshole is famous, and lots of rich people have decent values, and live respectable lives. Darryl Green has the same set of life circumstances, as Daryl Strawberry. He seems to be doing quite well dealing with fame and fortune. Perhaps Daryl Strawberry has lived up to his true personal potential. His physical abilities didn’t overwhelm his emotional or ethical shortcomings.

Perhaps, just possibly, in the remote reaches of reality, we are actually responsible for the results of our own actions in life. It could be.

Tris

15

Another factor you have to add when comparing athletes or entertainers with, say, corporate CEOs is the razor’s edge between success and failure in sports and media.

Take a potential CEO that doesn’t quite have what it takes. Chances are he or she’ll end up as a department manager somewhere, driving a Buick rather than a Mercedes. But an entertainer who misses a big chance by just a hair is likely waiting tables, and an athlete who misses may well be asking “fries with that?”

The corporate executive can look at his buddy from business school who he thought was damn good but didn’t get the breaks he deserved, see that the buddy is a vice president at a small company, and not feel too bad. On the other hand, the actor whose buddy at the studio who she secretly worshiped but had a cold the day of the big audition will see that her buddy is totally out of the business. Likewise the big-league pitcher whose buddy from the minors who just happened to get shelled the day the scouts were there.

I think it’s pretty hard psychologically to face the question of why am I here in the mansion when Bobby, who was damn near as good as I am (or maybe even a little better) is pumping gas.

In addition, there is the pressure of media exposure. It’s simply not a story when the rising corporate star has his career derailed because of his cocane habit. On the other hand, when a young professional athlete who is daily lionized in the press screws himself over with because he can’t stay away from the blow, it’s a tragic arc worthy of being immortalized by an ancient greek poet.

Furthermore, “big star has stable home life” is maybe a paragraph in a story about the star’s accomplishment, while “big star arrested with heroin and hookers” is the lead story for three days straight. For every Daryl Strawberry cracking up, there is a Cal Ripkin or Paul Newman who seems to have their life fairly well together.

16

Don’t underestimate the fact that a lot of these troubled athletes and entertainers find success at a pretty young age. So they have some of the youthful exuberance and maybe less wisdon that we all have but the difference is they have the money to actually make their poor judgement into reality.

I’m not saying we all have youthful desires to see hookers and take cocaine, but certainly a percentage do, just like in sports an entertainment most manage to stay out away from those things, but a small percentage cannot resist temptation.

17

We are using money and fame as a measure of success here. Perhaps true success is happiness?

Does anyone recall the head of Luby’s Cafeterias taking his own life a few years ago? He had worked his way up the chain. The company represented the faces and families of people he knew. He couldn’t accept the responsibility to close down a few restaurants lay some of those people off.
He was considered a success until he killed himself.

OTOH Al Dunlop could shut down a factory and layoff thousands of people as long as those people were just numbers on a piece of paper. His hardnosed method toward profitability was considered a “success” until they failed in the Sunbeam reorganization.

18

wring- 1/2 a lawyer? Do I hear a joke coming on?

:slight_smile:

19

2 1/2 lawyers = two full fledged attorneys (or used to be). the “half” was a woman, 3rd year law school, about to graduate, her fiance, who was from Venezula called her from ** Miami ** and asked her to pick up a ** package** for him at ** Fed Ex**. I asked her “don’t you ever go to the movies? watch tv???”

she said that she’d checked into it and found that she could still practice law in New York…

(aside to ** Doug**) my gauge was not fame and great wealth (although lack of serious $$ problems would count, I think, as a sign of success). But I agree, in general, those trappings do not happiness make… ('though I am willing to conduct an experiment on the subject, so feel free to send $$…)

20

Fear, thanks - that’s the quote I was thinking of!