Yah, he paid his $30 fine. It’s not like he did something the media would get excited about. Unlike the underwear impaired elite of Hollywood, he knows how to exit a vehicle with class. His behind the scene ability to handle a crisis would have made him a president of note.
Cite. What sacrifices has Ted or any Kennedy made? Having two of them assassinated is hardly a sacrifice. A sacrifice is something does voluntarily, with the knowledge that one is giving something up that may otherwise benefit him.
Those two deaths were great losses, and get my great sympathy, but they are hardly sacrifices.
Sheesh. How does someone’s having family members killed generate like directed to that person? You agree with his policies, fine. He served as a senator for a long time, that’s not automatically a good thing. Now, while I don’t like the guy, I don’t bask in his current horrible situation. What I wish on him is a long life—out of the senate—where he realizes “Fuck, :smack: , what was I thinking!”
You were thinking if he is not conservative like you he is evil. Yet we have had liberals and conservatives for a long time. Sometimes they wake up. Conservatives see Bush and Cheney remake America into something ugly is a short time.
Huh? How the fuck did you get that from my post? Try using the words that appear on the screen. They can come in handy when attempting to glean what someone is saying.
A long life out of the senate where he would he would realize fuck what was I thinking.
Your dingbat words not mine. Try remembering what you write before saying I did not read them.
Oh, come on, that’s not fair. For one thing, Joe Jr. died in the war…that’s clearly a sacrifice. And JFK came damn near dying in that war himself. And he and his brother were assassinated while they were in public service to their country. It may not be quite the same thing as the sacrifice Joe Jr. made, but it IS a sacrifice. Bobby, in particular, was in public service at a very volatile time in our history, and I’m sure it crossed his mind once or twice that the same thing might happen to him as happened to Jack.
If my brother died in a war, HE made the sacrifice, not me or my family. And people join the military for many reasons, one is political aspirations. While I think all who serve, regardless of their motivation, if I had designs on holding high office and thought serving in the military might help that happen, that is hardly a “sacrifice”. It’s a stepping stone. I see nothing wrong with doing that, by the way, but to call it a sacrifice, degrades the idea of true sacrifice.
I think it’s a commonly accepted idea that family members are making a sacrifice when a loved one goes off to war, and especially when that loved one doesn’t come home. You hear that language all the time in such a circumstance. If my brother died in a war, you can bet I would feel as though I had made a sacrifice, and our mother an even bigger one. I think it’s parsing the meaning of the word a little too closely to claim that only the person who died made the sacrifice. The loved ones have to go on without the person, after all.
Interesting thought, but for one thing, you are ascribing motivations to Joe Jr. that you don’t know for sure, and for another, he’s just as dead, and if he wasn’t, someone else would be in his place. So even if it wasn’t the most selfless act, I don’t see how it isn’t a sacrifice.
Please point to another political family that has sacrificed more. The Bushes put their son where he would be safe from combat and then he didn’t even have the decency to fulfill his obligation. The only other case that comes to mind is McCain where he, his father, and his son all served. And you don’t see McCain mentioning his son’s service every 5 minutes either.
I’m not sure what conservatives have against people like Kerry, McGovern, Jim Webb, and the Kennedys that actually served their country and lionize the bunch of chicken hawks that are running the current show.
They suffer a terrible loss, they didn’t MAKE a sacrifice. Saying that the word is commonly used that way doesn’t mean there was an actual sacrifice. What act did they commit that equates to a sacrifice? What decision did they make? You can say the person who served made a sacrifice, particularly if they lose their life in the process. But for many people, choosing to serve in the military is a stepping stone. and choosing to do something with the hopes of achieving something else personally down the road is hardly a sacrifice. It’s closer to the opposite. As I said, I see nothing wrong with that at all. Those people still have my thanks as their actions benefit me. If it benefits themselves additionally, all the better. But calling it a sacrifice is a contortion of language. Much like the gross misuse of the term “hero”.
I’m more willing to ascribe sacrifice to the person who actually put himself in harm’s way. But let’s be honest, do you really think Joe had no political ambitions. I seem to recall that the father thought Joe was going to b e the one, not John. (But I could be wrong about that.)
Why? What does that haver to do with anything. The point isn’t whether they sacrificed more, it’s whether they sacrificed? Maybe this will help:
Please show what The Kennedys have offered up and who did the offering. Then we might have a “sacrifice”.
:rolleyes: Nothing to do with anything, but gotta bash Bush… Now I see why you included the first sentence. Sad.
And you point is…
Please show where I’ve EVER lionized Bush or the gang “running the current show”.
He will most certainly join the Senate’s pantheon.
As I said, you have a much tighter definition of the word “sacrifice” than I do. To me, sacrifice is giving something up for a greater good. Having mixed motivations doesn’t take away from it all that much, as far as I’m concerned. If fighting for a noble cause is part of the motivation, then it’s a sacrifice.
Yes, it’s commonly known that Joe Kennedy had his sights on the presidency for Joe Jr., and I’m not saying that Joe Jr. didn’t have political ambitions. But to assume that was his only reason for joining the military is not fair. After all, Jack joined up, as well, and at the time, he was under the assumption that Joe Jr. was going to fulfill the role of politician in the family…it wasn’t until Joe Jr. was killed that the ambitions fell to Jack.
And this may very well apply to the person serving. It does not apply to their family. Keep in mind that my position casts no aspersions on the person making the sacrifice (to whatever degree that he is) or his family.
It is my opinion that every son of Joe had political aspirations. That does not in any way denigrate their service. The benefit to their country was the same. But would you say that someone who joins the service as a career with an eye to make general or admiral is “sacrificing”? Or that someone who joins the service to put them through medical school so they come out with no debt is “sacrificing”. I don’t think so. I think a good example of someone sacrificing is Pat Tillman. He left a lucrative career in the NFL as he was coming into his prime in order to serve. THAT in my mind is clearly a sacrifice. Mot that all such sacrifices have to be as stark.
It’s often a family decision when someone decides to join up. They usually don’t do it without the blessings of their family, who know that there is a chance they will lose the person.
Whether or not all the Kennedys had political aspirations, I don’t know. I have always heard that Jack was not inclined towards a politcal career until he had family pressure to do so. But you are missing my point about the sacrifice. It’s not necessarily a sacrifice to join the military. It’s not necessarily a sacrifice to serve (although if you know you’re going to be sent away from your home & family for a long time, it may be). But it IS a sacrifice to die in the service of your country. A general or an admiral who dies while in service (not that it happens that often, but still…) is sacrificing…I don’t care how much gain there was while they were alive.
I think that, while this can be the case, you are going to far if you think it to be a general rule. It’s great of family members can be comfortable with the decision, but most people who want to go will go nonetheless. It is vastly a personal decision to put one’s self in harms way.
I would say that they put themselves into a position where their lives may be sacrificed for their country. If they lose their life, they have made the ultimate sacrifice. If they do not lose their life, it’s still an open question.
Magellan, let’s just say we have a very different idea of the meaning of the word sacrifice. No sense in going back and forth saying the same things and failing to convince each other.
Speaking of Kennedy sacrifices, does it have to be a family member?
duplicate entry