Last year when I went car shopping, it was all about adding the Lojack system. They’d remove it and try to sneak it back in several times then “Oh my” when they called called out on it. Eventually they STILL kept it in by lowering other costs to put as at our agreed end price. The margins are such that they’d rather take money out elsewhere than lose the margin on the add-ons.
My tactic is going in with a researched fair price, offering it and just sitting there until they agree to that price.
I will not engage in any discussion about add-ons, fees, financing, extended warranties or anything else, including the weather, football or my family.
My wife refuses to go with me any more. She thinks I’m being a bastard.
People keep telling me that “the grind” is a thing of the past. I bought a car four months ago. Grind was absolutely on display.
There are no-haggle dealerships. Six years ago I went to one. They really would not haggle, but were asking MSRP + $1500 (junk fees and useless add-ons) for cars that were selling for $1500 below MSRP everywhere else.
So to avoid the unpleasantness you could just pay $3000 more, I guess.
I took my Jeep Liberty in for a recall repair and walked out trading it in on a GMC Envoy. Loved that Envoy
back to the OP …
its the interseccion of those 2 variables:
a.) the size of the prize (commission for the salesperson is sufficiently high to do ethically questionable acts)
AND
b.) infrequency of the transaction (I can conveniently screw you over, b/c the next time you Will buy a car (3-5 years from now) the sales guy Will have moved on and Will Not suffer the conscuences of his behavior).
If the sales were on a daily basis (e.g. Pepsi salesperson to retail) they could not screw you over, b/c of pushback/retaliation starting tomorrow from the buyerś side.
IOW: There are no financial/behavioral consecuences for doing the wrong thing.
One thing I loved about dealing with CarMax is the no-haggle, no-pressure approach, and the price for the vehicle was in line with comparable vehicles elsewhere.
I went into a Jeep dealer about 20 years ago and a knucklehead with greasy hair and a suit walked up and asked me “What will it take to put you in this new Cherokee?” My reply: “A better salesman than you.” He went and got the manager and we settled on a deal on a Wrangler in about five minutes.
Basically a rip-off under another name. It should be called “You’ll pay full freight and then some”. It’s also called “A Honda dealer”. They not only won’t budge off MSRP, but will insist on you paying an “area fee”. Fuck Honda.
If you want to buy a new car, you have to go to a dealer to test drive them, as there are few other options. You will be exposed to the sleazy sales-critters, but you can hold firm that you are there for a test drive and to ask questions, and not to buy.
I have found that once you settle on a specific model, color, and options, and done your homework on expected price, you can email several dealership internet sales departments and ask them to give you their out-the-door price - first one that meets your request and offers acceptable terms gets the sale. At the dealer you can walk past the slimy people on the lot directly to the internet sales office and finalize the deal. We have done this a couple times and it is way less stress and way faster at the dealership. One time the internet sales manager threw in some mats and mud guards for free since they were already in/on the car. Pretty close to no-haggle-type dealerships, but you need to be disciplined and hold steady when they try to “sell” you during the test drive.
When I wander the sales floor while waiting for service to be completed, no one ever comes over to question me about what I’m looking for.
I must look too grubby to be a valid prospect, or am unconsciously sending out negative vibes.
This is true, but is also true of real estate as well, if not more so. If anything, people buy houses even less frequently than cars, and the commissions can be much, much higher.
But other than a few shady practices, you certainly don’t hear of realtors having quite the same reputation as car salesmen.
I wonder if it’s because realtors, by and large, rely on referrals for their business (or at least trade on the reputation of their company). Also, the time spent looking for and buying a house lends itself to establishing more of a relationship with a realtor.
Or, maybe realtors are really even scummier than car salesmen and we rubes just don’t realize it. I know there have a been a few studies that show that realtors work much harder on getting a lower price when they are buying for themselves than for “the laity”.
I’m going to ask “What sleazy tactics have been used on Dopers by car salespeople?”. I’ve bought a bunch of used cars, mostly not from dealers though. One dealer got the better of me, mainly because my wife really liked the car. I got the better of another one because I worked him by going on a Friday afternoon and was perfectly willing to get up and leave if he didn’t give the car at the price I wanted. That price was based solely on how much money I was willing to spend and not at all on the actual value of the car. The car wasn’t worth that much more than I offered really, but they might have got more than that from someone who really wanted a little blue ragtop.
Real estate sales usually have more fraud protections in the law than car sales do. Most home sales include a mortgage and the mortgage company will require certain assurances, and individual states have strict requirements also. People have bought real estate in private sales without a lawyer have plenty of sleazy real estate sales to report.
I think realtors differ in a.) not selling a fungible good and b.) being somewhat of an intermediary between the seller and the buyer, hence “balancing” those a bit.
Also aren’t There any written appraisals and walk-arounds, that keep a lot of variables in writing (the HVAC system is se mi-New and in full y working condition)… that might Also keep honest people, well honest ,-)
And houses aren’t impulse buys. Inspections and financing take days or weeks. Sufficiently pressured, you can buy a car in minutes.
ISTM when it comes to real estate, most of the sleaze is applied to fleecing the house seller, not the house buyer. Whereas in the car biz, what sleaze there is is 100% applied to the car buyer.
Recent thread, asking mods for a merge:
If you want the mods to do something, don’t post your request in the thread. Report the thread and make your suggestion in your report.
No harm in telling the rest of us your intent, but mods will generally never see notes like yours.
A SD staff report on the topic:
In the auto sales industry, sales people have many things going against them. In a market of any size, there is more than one place to buy the same car. There is also a place to buy the same car but with a different nameplate (especially true of American cars). The market for cars is inelastic, which is to say that it’s really not seasonal — the sales opportunities do not peak or dip any appreciable amount at any particular point in the calendar. What this boils down to is this: YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE TO SELL THIS CUSTOMER A CAR. IF YOU CAN’T SELL HIM/HER RIGHT NOW, IT’S ALL OVER. Harsh as this seems, it’s true. That’s why they push so hard to make the sale. Experience has shown that if you walk off the lot, you’re never coming back.
When we sold our house in Portland, we used the same realtor who found it for us. We trusted her as the friend of a friend. So I was surprised when she brought in a ‘stager’ who quoted us $2500. I told her we’d get back to her, went to the local furniture rental place, and got new furnishings for about $300, delivery and setup included.
Watch out if they whip out a four square or four way . That is the sure sign of them trying to put over a ripoff-
Although the car business has changed dramatically in recent years, thanks to the expansion of superstores with no-haggle pricing and automakers such as Tesla offering direct online sales, some dealerships still use old-school, high-pressure gimmicks. These include the dreaded “four square” worksheet that makes it difficult to know how much you’re actually paying, and prewritten scripts designed to part you from your money.…
The details of the technique may have changed over the years since Consumerist reporter Ben *Popken talked to car salesperson Allen Slone about the four square in 2007—we’ve seen “deal sheets” or “order sheets” without the four boxes—but the basic formula remains the same. *
“It looks really unassuming on its face, but it’s designed to make you pay more and not realize what’s going on,” Slone explained in the Consumerist article. Salespeople will write in big letters, turn the sheet over, and write over and cross out numbers to make it as confusing as possible, all in an attempt “to wear you down and make you sign.”
Zach Shefska says the whole point of a four square is to focus a buyer’s mind on a monthly payment instead of the total price of the vehicle.
The fact that they sell one of the most reliable cars in America gives them a lot of slack.
Here are the ten least reliable car brands-
Most reliable-
After Subaru, Lexus, and Toyota, Honda comes in fourth place.
When I bought my last car I made it clear to the salesman that I had sold vehicles, but he still dragged out the 4-square. I said “Really? You’re going to try a 4-square on me?” He looked sheepish, but said that they were required to bring one to the manager. My reiterating that this was a cash deal made no difference, which made doing one of those even dumber. I also refused to sign it.