It’s not that cars are one of the most expensive things you’ll ever buy, because real estate is not this sleazy.
It’s not that people don’t understand how cars work because computer sales are not this sleazy.
There is an information imbalance (despite all the information now available to consumers, it’s still hard to tell how much profit the dealer will make on any given vehicle), but that’s not unique.
Not only is the negotiation on the car itself sleazy (“park the customer for 2 hours while I them I’m checking with the manager”) but they they try to sell the dealer add-ons that are 95% profit. And the whole process is high-pressure.
So what about this business engenders this pond scum?
Wait, what? Your suggestion is that people frequently return cars after purchase and that’s the reason for the sleazy profession? I thought that returning a car after sale was impossible.
Again? Okay. In my experience, it varies from sales person to sales person. The old tactics of long ago (What’ll it take to put you in this car today?) have generally been discarded. I worked as an RV salesman for several months when I was between jobs in my profession. We had every type of salesman working there, and I can tell you that the ones who tried to “grind” every customer didn’t make a good living. The best salesmen who made the most money numbered two: me and one other guy. That’s because we both treated customers as something besides a paycheck. I refused to hard-sell. People recognize it and resent it. My approach was “tell me what you’re looking for and what your budget is, and I’ll try to point you to something suitable.” And absolutely no up-selling, although I’m guessing that the finance guy may have tried that.
As for talking to the sales manager: that was absolutely required by the dealership. The sales manager had all of the information on profit margins and actual cost and had to approve any offer. It only took a few minutes, not two hours.
The pond scum: yeah, there is that element. But like I said, customers can spot desperation easily, so it’s not effective. Some of the sales people I worked with were desperate to make their rent or buy groceries and would try anything for a sale. Or they would jump the queue, which means trolling the parking lot and getting a potential customer’s personal information and then claim half the commission that some other salesman rightfully earned. In vehicle sales there is often what is called “ups”. Every month, an ‘up’ list is generated based on the previous months sales. If you were #1 in sales in January, then you had first option on a new customer in February. Then you went to the end of the up list and the next person takes the next customer (the ‘up’). I had to back our resident scumbag into a corner and tell him to stop poaching my customers.
While home and computer sales typically do not involve sleazy sales-people, neither of those are so closely attached to your identity as a car. The car sales-critters know how emotional people can get about the car they drive and use that to their advantage - the skilled ones can separate you from reason by stroking your ego, or finding a weakness in your strategy after observing your reactions to a vehicle or price (“well, this price is only good for this weekend!” or “yeah, I’m not supposed to do this, but let’s go out to the back lot - there is one out there you need to see!”).
I should also mention that I was working on a percentage commission. It was much more lucrative to sell a high-end RV than a popup trailer. Most car salesmen are on a set dollar amount rather than a commission, so they need to sell a lot of vehicles to make it worthwhile. That would lead some to use less than honorable techniques.
Car salesmen are sleezy because they are not actually providing a necessary service. You don’t need one to buy a used car; and buying a new car isn’t an absolute necessity for anyone. The only way they can get consumers to overcome all the logical reasons for not using their services is to make them fall in love with the products they are selling. In other words, they are pimps.
Sleaze in vehicle sales has declined markedly in recent years in my perspective, thanks to up-to-the-minute pricing guidelines available online for base models and add-ons. Anyone who’s looked into it can readily come up with a “fair” offer to make (whether or not the dealer will agree is another matter).
I can’t remember the last time a dealership made any significant effort to con me into useless add-ons.
It seems to me that real estate salesmen/saleswomen and their commissions are at least as sleazy or sleazier than their counterparts in the auto industry these days. They have their own set of pressure tactics and urgings to buy insurance that supposedly covers malfunctioning infrastructure and appliances (but not very well).
And the car guy doesn’t insist on my calling him a sales-tor.
The past few I’ve dealt with over the past 10 years have been pretty good. They seem to know people can get instant pricing with their smartphones and are ready to play fair on the vehicle price.
Seems they’ve refocused however onto the “add-ons” and extended warranties since the margins on them are incredibly high.
My wife’s last Audi purchase was smooth and her sales guy came in below what we were expecting to pay and seemed to find ways to apply further discounts. At the end however he handed us off to another guy who tried to pressure us for a half hour to buy their extended warranty. They also tried to pull the trick about “the extra $300 is for the special finish sealant we applied. Can’t have it removed cause we already put it on the car. We put it on ALL our cars.” That didn’t fly.
I agree. If it takes time an effort from a salesperson they’ll do anything they can to make a sale, which may also translate to keeping their job. It doesn’t matter what the product is, regulations may limit them for a particular product but they’ll still do whatever they think they can get away with. I would trust a car salesman or realtor more than any computer salesman to some degree. Not like I trust any of them much, but I’ve only bought 2 houses and around 20 cars while I’ve bought hundreds of computers.
The profit margin on a new car for the dealership is actually quite low. Their profit mostly comes from financing, extended warranties, service contracts, and other add-ons.
Because most car buyers are low-hanging fruit. Talk a good game and you can control them easily so those that like to sell to suckers would naturally gravitate to that field. I bet that if I lost my ethics tomorrow I could totally make a mint just by knowing how to control the discussion.
What sort of payment are you comfortable with?
Can you see yourself driving this car?
The undercoating is to protect your investment. You want to be protected, right? I saw a video last night where if you did not want the undercoating, ceramic coating, anti-theft etching etc. they had you sign a paper saying that you acknowledge that you were not protected and that you would need to be self-insured. Yes, they used the word self-insured. The guy ended up paying $500 more for the car than he wanted, bought the undercoating and then paid a BS “DMV” fee in addition to the OTD price agreed to and everyone in the comments was how shrewd of a negotiator he was. If I’m a sleezeball, tell me why I shouldn’t be in that profession with “shrewd” buyers like that.
Agree. The car sales-people are doing their thing every day and can hone the skills needed to sucker people. Car shoppers are buying a car, what, every 5-10 years on average, and may “think” they know how to buy a car, but are far less practiced compared to the people at the dearlership.
IF you know what you are doing then you don’t need a salesman for a new car. As in, I don’t need someone to explain features to me, I did my research. I don’t need someone to run my financing, I already have the loan approved through my credit union. I don’t need someone to do the calculations for me, I have an amortization calculator on my phone. I don’t need someone to go over the protection packages with me, I’m already going to hard no all of those. If I need mats I’ll go to TuxMat. If I want ceramic coating then I’ll go to a detailer, pay $250 and still save money.
When I bought my new car in 2023, all I needed was a saleswoman to write up the deal and a finance manager to write up the contract.
There’s also the fact that they don’t let people browse without being disturbed. When I take my car in for, say, an oil change, I sometimes think it would be nice to wander the lot to see what’s in stock. Every time I’ve done this, within a few minutes a sales person approaches and repeatedly asks questions about what I’m looking for, etc. Even after I explain I’m just wandering around while my car is in for an oil change, they persist in pestering me until I more firmly tell them I’m not looking to buy or just walk away to sit in the waiting area. That doesn’t happen with any other type of product, including real estate, where obviously there won’t be a sales person at a property available for sale unless it’s an open house.
