I didn’t realize that was a major source of new posters, I had thought most zombie threads come back to life from spammer activity or some relevant bump.
~Max
A lot of “new posters” are actually spammers, but yes, that’s a fairly common way for legit new posters to show up.
Also, when I was a new poster, I found it intensely frustrating that some interesting thread would pop up to the recently-posted-to list, and then, often as I was reading it and formulating a response, a mod would come by and close it because “it’s a zombie”. I didn’t even know what “zombie” meant. It was very off-putting.
One of my goals as a mod is to evaluate bumped old threads for “is this still relevant?” For instance, “here are the symptoms my sick cat is displaying, what should I do?”, or “what should I pack for a trip to XYZ” are probably not relevant. But a lot of threads are.
Most people are posting from their phones. I believe this is the biggest reason forums are dying. Younger people, and older but techy people, don’t want to mess around trying to type and read on a small screen, and a lot of people don’t even have desk computers anymore.
I think the board moved away from the Closed as Zombie thing unless it was an old thread with a lot of discord and rancor and many missing parties. Even then it isn’t automatic.
There are also some Spam attractors. The third time a 2005 thread for buying a microwave gets bumped by a spammer is a good time to close it.
Otherwise old threads stay open now when bumped and I think even the stale Zombie jokes are usually discouraged.
I’ve no doubt this is true, but think of the numbers here.
The SDMB has, let’s say, two thousand regular contributors. That was a number cited before; I don’t know how true it is but it doesn’t matter for the purpose of my point, so we’ll stick with it.
IF you look at this with a sense of doom, thinking “if fifty percent of all users stop using long form forums we’re down to a thousand,” the board is screwed.
But hundreds of millions of people use the internet, and many, many of them LIKE long form forums. Quora is full of people typing long posts about any number of things. For every person on the SDMB who leaves, there are scores of potential members out there who aren’t members because they don’t know this place exists.
The problem is not the fundamental product, the long form message board. The problem is that 99.99% of all potential members have never heard of the place. How to reach them and get them to sign up?
FWIW, I couldn’t read that as anything other than a good faith request for clarification.
No, we are not great to newbies. I hang out the Pit, and it’s pretty much impossible to be a new person without someone thinking you’re trolling. (I don’t know how recent of a development that is, really. I was accused of trolling when I joined in 2007.)
We have no appeal to young people, and I don’t want another reddit clone. Reddit’s weakness, in my opinion, is that you don’t get a sense of the personalities of users or an established history with them. I know some people feel otherwise, but I really don’t care for the way reddit is not like the Dope. And I use reddit near daily. It’s great for specific interests. But the major subreddits are echo chambers of young people, so it’s not like it’s inherently better.
I’m 38, which puts me on the low end of the age bracket here, and I joined when I was… 24. Oof. I started using a PC for my posts, but since the change to Discourse I now almost exclusively post to the SD using my phone. It’s harder, but not that much harder, so I doubt that’s driving anyone away (though it may be simplifying the discourse.)
The Straight Dope is dying because message boards are dying. They can’t provide the insta-dopamine hits of social media. It requires a lot of reading. And nuanced thinking. All ideas that are antithetical to the culture of social media.
And I don’t want it to be like those things. So I think the best chance of growing the board’s readership would be
- Marketing to people 35-55 as someone mentioned upthread.
- Being nicer to newcomers.
- Being more receptive to ideas that don’t fit the proscribed ideology.
I’m a liberal. Pretty damned progressive. But there’s a growing contingent on the left that is not tolerant of nuanced discussions or ideas that deviate from what they consider morally correct. Perhaps in reaction to the absolute utter fucking lunacy that is the Trump era, this board has more and more become controlled by that very specific progressive moral sensibility that is inclined to stifle debate rather than engage it. And I don’t think it has been for the better. This has driven off many people and discouraged new membership.
On the flip side, I don’t perceive this place at all as the sexist cesspool it used to be - so is there some kind of compromise we can make? Can we protect against the most egregious harms and give more leeway to others?
It isn’t just about supporting progressive ideas, either. It’s just a general restriction of discourse that makes it harder for people to engage on any meaningful level. One major reason I spend a lot of time in the Pit is because there aren’t so many damned rules.
I don’t. I mostly interact with this message board on my phone. Since moving to discourse that’s been pretty easy.
I think it’s mostly competition from stuff like Facebook.
It could be my phone, or it could be my browser, but I find Discourse much harder to use on my phone. Slow response, weird inputs, difficulties with posting and quoting, and so on. It’s not a complete barrier to use, but it is an annoying friction.
I don’t know if this is dissuading new members or not, but holy shit do I agree with this. I hate omnibus threads. They’re completely hostile to casual browsing and conversation, particularly if you like to make an effort to read the thread before replying.
Depends on whether the person reviving the thread is saying “Here’s what you should do” to its original OP, or “I’m having the same issue.”
True dat.
I think you are right about this. In my head I think of it as we are going from a board of people just having fun talking to other people, to a subset of posters that are just here to lecture people about their personal crusade. It’s tiring seeing this happen to good threads over and over. And since lecturing instead of talking isn’t a rules violation there is nothing you can do about it.
These are some of the people I was referring to above. They are not here for conversation, they don’t want to have fun or answer a factual question. They want to lecture you over and over again about the same thing they lectured you about the last time.
Yep, the sexist stuff took a nosedive once the mods started to actually mod it. it should have been modded under the jerk rule years ago, but as all things Dope related, change comes slow.
As much as I would like it to, I just don’t think this is going to happen. I think we already sailed past the point we could compromise.
If you are not in on the threads from the beginning and keep up with them daily you will never catch up.
The problem is that on this board, individual threads for movies or tv shows seem to die a quick death, and it’s been that way forever. The only tv series that I can think of right off hand that had their own threads of any length are Lost, 24 and Game of Thrones. The only other thing that has enough fans here are Star Wars, Star Trek and Lord of the Rings.
I don’t spend a lot of time in CS, so I wouldn’t really opine on the best way to handle those. But the “Stupid Republican Idea of the Day” / “Omnibus cops suck” type threads are really difficult. In The Game Room, we used to do an NFL thread for each week, which worked pretty well. They only ran to a page or two generally (50-100 posts, now that we aren’t paginated), and then ended.
I like the movies thread. I’ve gotten great movie reccomendations there from people who probably wouldn’t have started a thread about it.
I don’t like how it’s panned out in the Pit. People start reviving those threads for incredibly petty shit.
I agree about omnibus threads, it’s one reason I love the monthly MLB and NHL threads and weekly NFL threads in the Game Room.
And, yes, the fewer but longer threads these days are annoying, especially when they’ve been hijacked or have endless nitpicks that go on for post after post. I just abandon those.
And the horrible switch from pages to infinite scrolling made it much, much worse.
I’ve been here since 2001, and I think you and I are about the same age (I’m 42) and I feel the same way. I’ve always felt that no one reads replies (or at least my replies) and just hurries up to write their own replies. And if I’m not ignored, I increasingly feel like I am yelled at or laughed at or pedant-ed at any time I post. I always think of stuff to post but end up not doing so because I usually predict how the thread’s going to go and I won’t like it.
We absolutely have nothing to offer here for anyone younger and I guarantee that not only would younger people not like it here, but the older folks won’t like them being here.
If money’s what is needed, I say just ask the people who are already here, who enjoy it here, to pay more to keep it running. Adding new people sounds like a lost cause.
I agree, they are not something many people just want to jump into, but I think most of the entries in those threads would never be mentioned here if there wasn’t the omnibus thread. Also, it seems like people (not you) get the feeling that if there is an omnibus thread, they can’t open an individual thread as someone will just link to the omnibus thread saying “already being discussed over here.”
You’re not wrong. I said in one of these threads already that I wish people would read and reply to what I actually wrote, not what they imagine I’m saying. What’s so hard with asking for clarification if you need it?
I agree with many points in your post, but this part keeps getting mentioned over and over by various people. I don’t agree with it.
From another Doper today (@Do_Not_Taunt ) in a Pit thread;
There’s thoughtful, nuanced, well sourced discussion in lots of places on Reddit (and probably other places). I don’t buy the idea that message boards are declining because there’s a distaste for in-depth discussion elsewhere.
My personal opinion is that message boards implode because of infighting like what’s happening now. Message boards are more of a community than places like Reddit where they value information over community because they’ve all seen what happens with communities. Can there be communities that don’t turn to infighting? I don’t know, but I haven’t seen one.
This is a common sentiment on Reddit:
But you were a mod, so you know all the “damned rules”, and they haven’t changed much. You didn’t have a difficult time before. There must be more to this than just the rules.
I was on a local sports board and I just gave up going after 2016. It had always been right leaning because Oklahoma, but it tanked bad.