As a white-collar child of blue-collar parents , I did actually kind of say that to my son. Because he is not academically inclined. He chose not to apply for union apprenticeships until he was nearly done with an associate’s degree and was advised at least once to “finish school” (which I suspect means they threw his application in the trash). So he finished the associate’s degree and eventually got an unskilled civil service job in the agency that runs public housing. It’s a decent job, has good benefits and he makes OK money - but had he gotten into an electrician apprenticeship program, he could be making about $90K (plus overtime) at the same agency he currently works for.
That’s the thing with averages- sure, the average college-educated person has more earning potential than the average non-college educated person. And of course someone with an accounting degree has more earning potential than a high school graduate with no skills. But that doesn’t mean someone with a BA in journalism has more earning potential than someone in a skilled trade - there’s no shortage of people with college degrees working in low-paying jobs who can’t afford to pay their loans *and *live independently of their parents.
From what I understand, the trades can provide for a middle class lifestyle, but often require a shift in middle-age into less physically demanding variants of the trade/management, or into trade-supporting positions, therefore introducing a level of variability that isn’t there in most white collar jobs. I have to figure that the switch isn’t always a step up- it’s entirely possible that someone could go from being a bang-up tile layer to a lesser job as a tile salesman and actually make less money in middle age, or just have to accept working less due to physical limitations.
By contrast, most white collar jobs tend to have their earnings peak in their early 50s, and they don’t really decline- it just doesn’t grow much from there. And the vast majority are doable with physical limitations of all sorts.
I think the real thing is that high schools and the government need to do a better job educating people as to who’s probably better off in college, and who’s better off in the trades. Not everyone’s cut out to be in college, and not everyone’s optimal career is a white collar one requiring a college degree. There are people out there whose optimal jobs may be being butchers, bakers, pipefitters, mechanics, or carpenters, just like there are people born to be accountants, programmers, lawyers, managers, etc…
mom didn’t want me in construction in southern cal because 1 none of it was union and 2 it wasn’t steady and the bosses were assholes who ripped you off every chance they could 2 they would work everyone in a manner that would make 1855 cotton plantations proud
and keep the bonuses everyone was supposed to get for completing it ahead of schedule
and about of 75 percent of the workers were one or two steps from going to or coming out of prison
these days its mostly filled by immigrants who get picked up for a days work at lowes or home depot here and there … when my family did it it was in front of sears …….
My dad thought about precariousness when he chose his profession. He became what was at the time called a sewage treatment plant operator. He figured that no matter how deep a depressions got, if anyone was eating, they’d need sewage treatment plant operators.
I mention this because water/wastewater treatment plant operation is a mix of vocational and academic, and it’s a career path that doesn’t get much push from career counselors. Most operators work for municipalities, which can have decent benefits. Operators need to be certified, and there are levels of certification. At each level, you need to have worked at the next lower level to be able to take the test.
Because trade schools dont have football teams and mascots.
Think about how in the USA we are bombarded by pictures of area universities - their colors, mascots, and logos everywhere. Everyone talks about who the football or basketball coach is. Its hard to beat that.
For another profession that’s pretty certain, my grandparents were morticians/funeral directors during the Great Depression. Hey, people are always dying, right? And they never lacked for business… the only trouble being sometimes they got paid in chickens and backyard produce rather than actual money. Even so, it got them through the hard times and also paid for the two boys in the family to go to pharmacy school and get college degrees.
Oddly enough, though, my high school guidance counsellor never mentioned that option…
^^This is a big factor. Counselors have too many students to handle to give each one personalized service. So everybody gets the 4 year college track. At our school parents have to fight to keep their kids out of UC/CSU requirement classes if they don’t want them. Counselors go nuts when a parent tells them that their kid is going to a private college, or into VocEd.
It didn’t used to be that way. 20 years ago my school had the best auto shop and the best woodworking shop in the county. Now those classes have been taken over by ROP and are a shell of what they once were.
I don’t think that’s it at all. Back in the day when the trades were more common career destinations and more respected, college athletics were THE main sporting events for huge swathes of the country.
If anything, pro sports have reduced the standing of the local universities relative to what they once were. The one place it has changed is that a number of power-5 universities have more of a national footprint now- people do hear about teams like the Oregon Ducks when in the past, they would have only heard about Alabama and Auburn. Now they hear about those three universities AND they hear about the pro sports too.
Personally I suspect it’s a consequence of the post-WWII GI Bills- between returning veterans and subsequent generations of draftees and war vets, you had a LOT of men going to college on the GI Bill who wouldn’t otherwise have gone. They had/have expectations that their children would go to college, and so on…
So with that expectation being the case for a huge chunk of the population, you see all the old second-tier schools- normal colleges and the like having upgraded themselves into full-fledged universities to handle the load, when they used to be much smaller, specialized schools. And the first-tier schools have all expanded greatly as well. I’d be willing to bet the timelines coincide as well with the post-war expansion of students, and their children/grandchildren’s appearance in college.
Well, ROPs are not waning because of lack of interest in vocational education, but because of major shifts in funding streams, particularly after Perkins was reauthorized in 2006. When NCLB and came in, many HSs reduced funding for voc ed, and for many regions, the ROP was the only thing left. In terms of administration and jurisdiction, ROPs are kind of a lone species, apart from school districts, which has caused them difficulty in getting the new funding which is now heavily moving toward CTE (vocational ed), and which I described in post #12.
I’m curious: Which school was it that had the best auto shop in the country, and that ended up as part of an ROP? Which ROP is it now?
That’s not true. Not true at all. Any profession that is currently comforting itself with “They’ll never replace us with machines” is just looking for a rude awakening.
I suggest you watch “How It’s Made” some time, to see how many factory tasks that used to be done by carpenters, welders, etc now get done by robots. Oh, there are still people around in those factories - they generally move a part from CNC Router Robot A to Sanding Robot B, or hold it while Robot C does some welding.
Shitty and dangerous jobs are the first ones we give to robots. Plumbing robots are already on the way.
We encouraged our son to go to the local trade school. Ultimately he didn’t, for two reasons. First, as noted by many before me, people are fucking snobs and he knew that people would think he’s dumb if he went there. But the second reason is ironic. To counter the view that kids who go to trade schools are dumb, the school presents tons of data about how many of their graduates go on to college (over 90%), the schools they go to (no ivies, but an impressive list nonetheless), how well they do on the MCAS (state standardized test) and SATs, and how rigorous the academics are. Our son, who has severe anxiety issues, actually thought that the trade school would be too hard for him. I’m hoping that we can get him in for next year. If not, I’m going to try to convince him to take electrician classes (which are available at a local community college) while in high school.
The main change in plumbing is the move to “Sharkbite” connectors.
The oldest type of pipe you’ll find in a home is galvanized iron pipe. You had to cut it and thread it, and wrench it together.
That was replaced with copper pipe. You could cut it with a simple tool, and soldered it together with a torch. A lot less work.
Copper pipe has been replaced in new home construction with PEX plastic pipes. You cut it with a nipper, and crimp it with brass barb fittings and a brass ring.
But even that has been replaced with “Sharkbite” fittings. Literally you just push the PEX into the end. It’s like Tinkertoys.
In every case, it takes less and less labor, and less skill to do it.
Not only this, but the overall potential of a college degree is much higher than that of simply learning a trade. Yes, you can go and earn a decent living as a welder or carpenter or other tradesman. It also has the advantage of not having to live in the most expensive parts of the country like being an investment banker or tech worker might. But getting certified as a welder or carpenter doesn’t really prepare you to do much else.
Plus I reject the notion that college is (just) a dumping ground for overprivileged kids to party for 4 years. Most of my classmates had aspirations of being engineers and accountants and lawyers and all sorts of professions.
We are starting to see more talk of this in recent years, although still not enough.
I started a toolmaker apprenticeship in September 1968. Yup, a half-century ago. I took it at Bausch & Lomb and they paid the night school tuition as long as you got a C or better in each course. And we worked 40 hours a week during the day. Night school was 2-3 nights a week as I recall.
After I finished the apprenticeship I left B&L and started working in small job shops (where the REAL work gets done) building injection molds. I did that until 1985 when I started my own business. I just turned 68 and am still running it full time, still doing mold work.
I could retire if I wanted to, but I like working. It’s SO much easier now with CAD-CAM-CNC than before any of that existed, which was how I learned.
No regrets. I’m a one-man shop and enjoy the independence, and don’t mind walking 50’ out my back door to the shop. Although I don’t make this much, many skilled trade employees can gross $100k with overtime.
And overtime, as an employee, has been available no matter where I worked going back to the beginning. There weren’t enough toolmakers then and there aren’t enough now. Most of my work the past few years is overflow from other shops because they can’t find employees.
And I think it’s the same in nearly all the skilled trades. There is always a lot to learn, you have to respect the older guys who know what they’re doing and will teach you, but in 10-15 years you can be making good money and can get a job nearly anywhere.
Around here, the way to advance in a trade is to become self-employed in that trade. Some people stay in their trades that way well into their 60s, just working for themselves all alone. Others aggressively shop for clients, advertise their services, etc. – those folks can then hire on their own help and make a comfortable existence for themselves.
It’s not at all uncommon around here for people who do, say, HVAC work, home contracting, or plumbing to earn six figures if they are self-employed or own their own business. Takes some dues-paying, business sense, and time, but it can certainly be done.
Really, even for relative novices in those fields … a 24-year old plumber (that is reliable and serious-minded) will typically out-earn a 24-year old entry-level financial analyst. That’s around here in the New Orleans metro, where entry-level white collar work experiences depressed salaries.
