Why is trump keeping classified documents-- for what purpose does he want them?

Politics & Elections
1

There’s some discussion of his reasons in the "FBI Search and Seizure’ thread, but that thread is so large and covers so much I thought that this subject might warrant its own thread.

So my understanding is that trump didn’t run off with boxes of classified docs when he finally left the White House for the last time, he already had the documents at Mar-A-Lago because it had been designated a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility) when trump was President and Mar-A-Lago was basically White House South. When he was no longer President, the SCIF designation was removed from M-A-L, and he should have turned over all the docs than, but he didn’t.

I’ve seen little or no speculation in the mainstream media for why he would still have these docs. I haven’t even seen any made-up justifications from the trump camp or Repubs who support him for why he wouldn’t just turn all the docs over. Just reasons why it’s not illegal for him to have them, such as “trump declassified all of the documents” (he didn’t) or “the FBI planted the really sensitive, classified ones” (they didn’t).

The possible reasons I can think of, based on what I’ve read in the "FBI Search and Seizure’ thread and my own speculation, are, roughly from worst-case to best-case scenario:

  • Step right up and get your state secrets right here! Highest bidder wins!
  • Trading with Putin in return for Kompromat staying buried.
  • Keeping docs that have evidence of trump illegal activities out of the National Archives.
  • Sheer ego: trump thought, since he rightfully should still be President, that he should still have access to the docs. Even though he has absolutely no use for them.
  • Sheer laziness / incompetence / stubbornness from trump and his handlers.

Could it be one of those scenarios, or some combination thereof? Or something I haven’t thought of?

2

I think this is the answer. Once team Trump realized they fucked up they were under strict orders to never admit wrong-doing, and so by sheer incompetent inertia they landed themselves here.

3

I think it’s mostly point 5, with a modification to point 4 (“these are my documents and I can keep them”) and a dash of 3.

4

Throughout his presidency, Trump has shown an inability to recognize the difference between what’s his personal property and what’s the national/state property (a common characteristic of dictators in general - “I am the nation and the nation is me,” like how Saddam viewed himself as Iraq personified.) So his handling of secret documents is just an extension of that.

5

The primary one you hear from the MAGA supporters is:

The documents were related to the Russia hoax/Durham investigation and Trump kept them because the FBI is covering Obama/Hillary’s tracks and by keeping them he could hold them all accountable and lock them up once he’s POTUS again.

There is, of course, no evidence that this is the case but since the true contents of the documents will likely never be released I think the explanation they will latch on to is that they implicate Hillary/Obama/Biden and Trump had to keep them to uncover and destroy the Deep State once and for all.

6

I have seen no evidence that Trump makes plans of any kind. He lives in the present moment, only. If something appears to be popular or successful, Trump will claim ownership and credit for it; when something (or someone) is not useful to Trump, he will throw it under the bus without a second thought.

Trump did not have a purpose in mind for the documents at Mar-a-Lago. When Trump’s presidency was ending, he saw something that might someday be useful, so he kept it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he showed off the trove of documents to visitors, just to make himself look more important. Now that they may be used against him, the documents are insignificant and the whole thing is just a witch hunt.

7

To understand Trump’s “reasoning”, you have to think like a spoiled toddler, who has been indulged by the parents.

“Mine! Mine! Mine!” That’s about it. Someone else wants them? “MINE!”

And when the toy is taken away? < whine, cry, whine, pout >

8

I created an AI generated image of the reason captioned “Mine”, “Mine”…“Mine”.

9
10

And his supporters will continue to gobble it all up even though he’ll never present even a shred of evidence that that’s the case…just like he’s done with damn near everything else he’s promised.
How he can still have so many supporters, I don’t know.
We can only hope that at some point in the near future he’ll do something stupid enough that the amount of supporters that actually do lose their faith hits a critical mass and he becomes a nobody. A nobody with an absolute boatload of debt (and people will finally stop extending him credit).

11

I agree with and second the drift of the thread that there was never a planned purpose. He grabbed stuff with his tiny hands, and when authorities applied pressure, he stupidly dug in his heels, because how dare anyone tell him what to do.

That said, I assume he’s been showing them around, preening like a shithead, and other nefarious actors in the notoriously porous M-a-L may have noticed their value and taken a peek. But not because T was consciously selling for profit. He was just a puffed up ego waving something important with no discretion because he wanted to and thought no little people could stop him.

I will be very surprised if there is anything more to it than this. And I will note that this may complicate a criminal prosecution, if they can demonstrate no motive more compelling than “he’s just a stupid asshole.”

12

I was wondering what the MAGA spin was, thanks. That, sadly, makes so much sense as a part of the whole fictional MAGA universe.

13

I tried to create a flock of seagulls with Trump hair, but the AI algorithm picked… the wrong “Flock of Seagulls.”

14

I can’t decide if that’s hilarious or terrifying.

15

Mixture of these:

  • He feels that since he’s President, he should get to keep some cool stuff that will impress people.
  • He doesn’t think a bunch of archiving document nerds should get to tell him what to do with his stuff
  • He compulsively hides everything, because he knows paper trails are rarely good for him
  • He’s absolutely charging someone money to look at it. I don’t think he’s consciously selling secrets, just charging people for being in the same room with an awesome guy who has awesome stuff. But I guarantee someone’s taken advantage of his stupidity.

Inferring intent is the hardest thing with Trump. He might be bold enough to sell nuclear secrets for money, he might be stupid enough to give them away in exchange for nothing but flattery. In any given moment he couldn’t explain what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, or whether it’s legal, because he doesn’t fully know or care. That’s a big reason why it’s so hard to pin him down.

16

And combine that with him instinctively having to do the opposite of anything he’s told. If he had returned everything the first time he was asked for it (even if it was just an unofficial ‘hey, we need that back’) none of this would have happened, at least not to this extent.
Hell, his ‘I won’t do what you tell me’ is a huge part of the reason why covid got as bad as it did. I distinctly remember hearing him say that the scientists/fauci told him [to do something] and he wasn’t going to do the other thing instead. And he wasn’t even claiming his way was right, just that he didn’t like being told what to do.

Because of the anti-everyone but me attitude the right has taken on, I like reading tweets from the GOP saying that Biden is doing this or that as a ‘political stunt’ or to ‘get more votes’ and people replying that as a president he’s supposed to be doing thing that (the majority of) his constituents want him to do.

“I’m not selling secrets, I’m just charging people to look at them” sounds like one of those stupid loopholes people use and think they’re so clever.

17

Oh yes it’s the perfect spin for the hard-core MAGA. Remember, these guys believe (at least some of them) that the FBI instigated January 6th. They believe that the FBI entrapped those guys that planned to kidnap the MI governor. They believe that basically since Trump came on the scene the FBI has had a single-minded focus to eliminate his ability to be a political player.

In their minds, it is entirely appropriate for Trump to have collected and stored as many files as possible that could expose the FBI malfeasance.

The one thing I can’t figure out though, is why they believe Trump has never revealed this information. If he could declassify it, and it was in his position, then he could reveal it and blow the whole thing sky-high.

The only partial explanation I’ve sort of heard is that maybe Durham and co. are still investigating and their trying to keep potential witnesses from clamming up, etc. But that makes very little since… but these guys aren’t always the most logical crew.

Now, I don’t personally have a good theory as to what the real reason Trump kept these documents is. I think the best theory it was just anger at losing and a desire to keep whatever vestiges of power he could - including the ability possess certain information. The speculation regarding selling/extortion/etc seems far-fetched to me, but obviously not impossible either.

18

Thanks for starting this thread. It was becoming a distraction in the FBI S&S thread, and I was going to moderate it for that hijack. Now I don’t have to, and that makes me happy. :slight_smile:

Trump may have had some of the classified documents at Mar-A-Lago when it had a SCIF, but other documents were taken when he left the White House, as well.

His actions became willful when he was advised repeatedly that it was illegal for him to keep the documents and he kept them anyway. Moreover, there are credible reports that Trump himself went through all the boxes after being so advised and actively decided what would be returned and more importantly… what wouldn’t.

The evidence of his intent became more clear still when his attorneys signed a declaration that all documents under the Presidential Records Act had been returned. They hadn’t, and Trump was aware of that.

While it may be true that he kept some of the stuff as mementos, I believe it’s equally true that he kept some of it for other more nefarious purposes. He may not have had a specific course of action in mind, but he has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to blackmail others and to monetize everything. That he had some half-baked notion of selling secrets or using them for leverage over others is not a difficult leap of logic for me.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. DOJ has what they need to prosecute an obstruction charge re the Presidential Records Act. The classification status of the documents is irrelevant to this charge.

Trump admits he had the documents, was aware it was illegal to keep them, kept them anyway while actively frustrating efforts at retrieval and offers no reasonable defense to why he kept them despite numerous efforts by NARA and DOJ to retrieve them.

There is no reason other than pursuit of a prosecution for DOJ to have included the potential obstruction charge in their affidavit. It will take some time, but given what DOJ found after their search warrant was granted, I believe Trump will be charged and prosecuted for obstruction if nothing else.

As to your listed reasons, I think every one of them played some part in Trump’s decision to keep the stuff.

19

I was still finishing my edit when you responded, but:

20

What I’m thinking: the purpose may not have been planned by Trump.

There’s a couple of things we know about Trump. One, he has a strong tendency to believe whatever stupid crap he’s told by sufficiently ass-kissing people, and two, he’s been targeted before by foreign agents.

I could see someone dropping a word in his ear like, “Hey, man, these document look interesting/valuable, you should hang onto them. No, no, it’s cool, you’re the president, it’s all perfectly legal, man, it’s in the Constitution or something…”, with the intent that, once Trump is out of office, and not under quite as much scrutiny, the agents would come back and buy the info Trump didn’t quite realize he had.

Lucky for us, the plan seems to have foundered on the “not under quite as much scrutiny” part.