Why is trump keeping classified documents-- for what purpose does he want them?

Politics & Elections
41

There are several issues with this theory:

  1. Trump flew stuff to Mar-a-Lago from the White House. The materials aren’t just stuff that was already there, that he was too lazy to return. (That said, he could have just sent everything in his office in the White House, without any particular review of what it was. But → )
  2. He did, ultimately, return stuff. While we might accept a form of laziness before that point, there’s no way to end up with 10+ boxes worth of stuff still sitting around in a room and think, somehow, that you’ve returned everything. It’s like you borrow 20 lions from a guy, give 10 back, and try to profess that you just forgot that there were still some more hanging out. They’re not dormice, you’re going to notice when you’ve got 10 lions roaming about the house - even when it’s a reasonably large house. 12 boxes of stuff is like the size of a couple of couches, you’re not going to fail to notice them.
  3. Reporting notes that the documents brought back to the FBI were scattered around the house and in Trump’s bedroom. When executing a search warrant, the officers are held to a reasonableness standard. If they open a box, rifle through the papers, find one Top Secret heading, then they can take the whole box to check more thoroughly later, because it’s reasonable to think that someone would store similar documents in the same box. If you see a single paper on a nightstand and it doesn’t have a classified mark on it and the date on it is 2022, then you leave it where it is because there’s no reasonable argument that it’s relevant to the warrant. So if they didn’t do that - if they did take something from Trump’s nightstand - then that document was clearly pertinent to the warrant. You don’t have as-clear-as-day government documents scattered around the house willy-nilly, up to and including your bedroom, and think that you’ve returned everything.

You could try to say something like that he simply couldn’t be bothered to collect and sort stuff but #2 above goes against that. He did return some stuff. He did have collected documents that were stored in a particular room that could be padlocked and, thereby, protected. There’s some sort of logic associated with those documents ending up staying away from the government and staying together, in a pile, in a room.

Kash Patel is quoted saying (to paraphrase), “He declassified everything about the Durham investigation, so I went to the National Archives to get access to them.”

Ergo, Trump didn’t have what he needed available. They’re at the National Archives.

42

Just a point here. Mar-a-Lago wasn’t designated a SCIF; they had a SCIF installed. The SCIF was decommissioned after Trump left office, so any documents there would have been recovered during the decommission.

43

No, but if you know the prosecution can’t articulate a compelling motive, you can still mess with the jury. “This makes no sense, why would he do this?” It’s a bit of a hail mary but maybe it gets you some doubt.

44

So there’s no possibility of a “forgot to return the rented video” style excuse here; trump and co. are clearly willfully and intentionally keeping these files.

45

Indeed. A SCIF has a custodian, who is responsible for keeping an inventory of any documents, including any that are destroyed. They would have also noted any that were declassified, and that paper trail would still exist.

But does anyone know for sure that there was, in fact, a SCIF at MaL? It would require fairly extensive remodeling for intrusion prevention and detection (they aren’t just rooms with a padlock on the door), and I expect Trump would charge astronomical rent for the space. I remember hearing that his clubs charged the USSS rent for golf carts, and wouldn’t allow them to bring their own.

I suspect it would be cheaper and easier to have the SCIF off site, and have a courier carry things in and out. But this is just my speculation.

46

Trump’s history would say that he believes most strongly in not creating a paper trail so I think it’s reasonable to believe that he wouldn’t (intentionally) keep evidence of any criminal activities. I wouldn’t be surprised if there used to be more documents at Mar-a-Lago than were ultimately recovered, because a goodly amount has been destroyed.

Of course, there’s some chance that he would have been too lazy to destroy stuff yet, thinking that he was safe from a search warrant. I would personally guess that it’s likely that materials pertinent to the Trump Organization Finances might have been included and, I would expect, the officers working on those will have been able to request that the filter team look for documents of that style, on the basis that they already had a subpoena out for such materials. Likewise, there might be other similar complicating if there are, for example, unknown sex crime cases open against him or whatever else. To me, it sounds like he was simply storing random documents together, without much logic, other than a desire to hide it - possibly with an eye to destroying it.

Our best evidence for this is that Trump immediately claimed - for no particular reason - that the FBI was planting evidence of crimes in the boxes.

So the first type of material is: Stuff that he wanted to destroy but hasn’t gotten around to, yet, because it would require sorting.

Which leads us to the second type of material: Stuff that he wants to keep.

Among stuff that he wants to keep, I’m sure that some is sentimental but the most likely - that would have been classified and part of his Daily Briefing, would be stuff that is useful for a business man.

Perhaps it was a now-paywalled NYT article that I can’t see but one account that I read noted that Trump took particular interest when there was information that would help businesses. The US could sell the UAE rockets, Israel had cryptographic components, etc. (I don’t know the actual contents - I’m just imagining what things might have been in there) and if we try to think of what papers would be useful to keep, after the fact, for reference then that would certainly be in the running.

So on that one, we have independent confirmation that he was interested in a particular class of classified material, we can imagine a fairly clear use, and we don’t need to get particularly conspiratorial. He’s a business man. Having info about different businesses and business opportunities is good. You would want to keep it.

Other things that you might want to keep - but which we have no particular evidence for - would be blackmail material. If that existed and has now been recovered by the FBI then we might expect to see people who 1) suddenly and sharply went pro-Trump for no reason several years ago, 2) suddenly becoming less enthusiastic in more recent times, and 3) potentially start having legal trouble, deciding to leave office, and/or having their place searched by the FBI.

It might not be fully obvious that this is related to the Trump raid but things of that nature would be expected if that was the sort of thing that Trump was hording.

47

But this is Trump we’re talking about. Sure he’s willing to commit crimes. But the idea that he could plan out a crime seems unlikely.

That said, my joke about Sergei may be more true than I realized. Perhaps one of Trump’s minions saw an advantage in hanging on to classified documents and arranged to have them left behind.

48

Oh, it’s Trump, so he may try. But there is video of boxes being moved from place to place in between DOJ contacts advising Trump he was illegally in possession. Remember, he was first advised he was illegally in possession by NARA in late 2020.

I refer you to @Northern_Piper’s excellent timeline and summary:

Some of the stuff was found in Trump’s own closet. And I think that’s why the DOJ asked for the signed declaration from Trump’s attorneys that all items had been returned to NARA custody in early June.

At some future trial:

Trump: “I forgot I had them!”

DOJ: "Here’s a document from NARA to you showing you were advised in late 2020 that you were illegally in possession of certain documents and pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, they must be returned.

"Here’s a document showing you were advised in May 2021 of the specific documents we knew were missing and that you illegally possessed.

"Here’s a document from late 2021 that shows you were advised NARA would be making a referral to DOJ for your failure to return these documents.

"Here’s a document from April 29, 2022, that shows you were advised specifically which documents were classified and which you continued to illegally possess.

"Here’s a letter we sent to your attorney, Evan Corcoran, on May 10, 2022, explaining why you had no basis to assert executive privilege over the documents you continued to illegally possess.

"Here’s a copy of a grand jury subpoena dated May 11, 2022, demanding that you return return all documents with classified markings that you continued to illegally possess.

"Here’s a copy of the written statement sent from your attorney, Christina Bobb, to us on June 3, 2022, stating that you had returned all classified documents, in compliance with the earlier-issued grand jury subpoena.

"Here’s a copy of the letter we sent you on June 8, 2022, asking that the document storage room be secured pending further action in this matter.

"Here’s video of boxes we told you to lock up in the basement pending further action being moved from the basement into your private quarters in your personal closet.

"Here’s a summary of the additional items we found that fall under the Presidential Records Act and which remained illegally in your possession, until we finally got them back on August 8, 2022.

"Here are classified documents we took from your private quarters on August 8, 2022. We tested them for fingerprint evidence and found your prints all over them.

“Still want to go with the, ‘I forgot I had them!’ defense?”

49

I can try sharing it as a gift link, since I do have a subscription with them. Hopefully this works.

50

“Yes.”

51

LOL!

True, sadly.

52

Well, really, “I forgot armed robbery was illegal” is about the only defense he has here. Of all the various reasons posited for Trump keeping this stuff, “He wanted to keep the love letter from Kim Jong-Un” and “He just forgot” are the only ones that aren’t obviously criminal on their face, and the first only applies to that one letter.

Convincing people to believe “I forgot” is his only shot at winning if this goes to trial.

53

Close to my recollection but not quite as exact. Good enough to demonstrate my point, though.

54

Or getting one of his disciples on the jury.

55

Moderating:

I think we’re hijacking this thread away from its intended topic. I realize I started it by saying the reasons why Trump kept the documents is beside the point, but let’s all stop now. @solost is entitled to keep the thread on the track for which they intended it.

56

Sorry if this has already been posted:

57

Wow, I don’t remember this. A request of whom? Was it granted?

58

From the article:

The Trump administration is taking inventory of many of America’s top spies, The Daily Beast has learned. The White House recently asked the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) for a list of all its employees at the federal government’s top pay scale who have worked there for 90 days or more, according to two sources familiar with the request.

59

Trump is driven by Narcissism, Power, and Wealth - so whatever reason he has to keep the documents is related to those:

  1. Having a SCIF, even if its decommissioned is a huge status symbol that appeals to his Narcissism and is a reminder of the power he had as President.

  2. Mentioned above - but knowledge is power and power is money. He wouldn’t have to trade secrets directly but he has access to secret information that creates an edge in any business dealings he is undertaking or any that his allies are taking part in. He could use any compromising information to serve his own purposes as well.

  3. Trade secrets to Trump friendly foreign leaders to get them to fund hackers or pay for other means and information to win the upcoming election.

  4. Trade secrets for more secrets. The ultimate in “show me yours and I’ll show you mine”.

60

That headline is misleading. A “list of all its employees at the federal government’s top pay scale who have worked there for 90 days or more” isn’t “top spies.” It’s top candidates to replace someone who wasn’t Trumpy enough – which is odious, but not nearly as treasonous. I wonder if such information might even be public record.

Still, the timing of the request so soon after the Putin meeting smells fishy. And I eagerly await someone connecting Trump’s activities (even if not necessarily this one) with the CIA losing so many informants.