Why isn't "fundie" hate speech?

The BBQ Pit
161

No, and that’s a cretinously obnoxious question. I don’t. What’s your point? That you can ask more obnoxiously disingenuous questions than everyone else?

I answered your question; now you answer mine. You object to the term “fundy” as a disparaging referent to a specific belief system, and therefore want it categorized alongside “nigger” as hate speech. Would you similarly object to the term “politically correct” as a disparaging referent to a specific belief system and ask it to be similarly categorized? Why or why not?

Daniel

162

You just don’t know the difference between bigotry and simple deductive logic.

Fundamentalist Christians condemn homosexuality.
Twin is a fundamentalist Christian
Twin condemns homosexuality.

FC’s do oppose homosexuality. There may be the occasional exception who dissents from the party line, but that in no way disproves the thesis as stated by the fuindie groups themselves. Do you think Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Paul Crouch, Lou Sheldon, and James Dobson are being insincere when they trash talk gay people?

It’s possiblr that Twin may be a dissenter, but it is not unreasonable to assume that a member of an organization shares that organization’s views.

Oh, and I’m no bigot, but, unsurprisingly, you ignore the pro-religious freedom thread I’ve got going because you are a dishonest (or just plain insane) piece of shit. It’s musch easier to call me a bigot than to confront the evil done by fundies.

163

Dear grienspace: Don’t rescue me. Sincerely, me.

And following up on Apos’s point:

I saw a documentary recently in which Ramachandran addressed this issue specifically, and made clear that using his research the way you’re trying to use it is a misleading and wholly insupportable interpretation of his data and conclusions. Would you like to see his own words on the subject? Would that be helpful in getting you to stop embarrassing yourself by bringing up a meaningless and inaccurate canard?

And I know you’re probably getting tired of reading this, since so many others have mentioned it, but hopefully it’ll mean something from me since we came to an understanding a while back in the “why don’t you believe” thread: You really have not seemed reasonable or stable lately. I don’t know what’s going on, but you have changed. Significantly. And I’m concerned.

164

In response to my previous post:

Are you sitting down Desmo? You’re such a duck !

Remember calling me an idiot for describing december as an atheist? You were so sure that he was Christian being so reviled by everyone until several other posters gently proved you wrong. Sort of made you the idiot didn’t it?

Now you have referred to me as a “fundie” without any evidence to support it. Not true. I suggest that you control that tongue of yours, because your hatred of Christians is quite evident.

165

I suppose it is okay with you to call Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus “towelheads”.

166

[QUOTE=Binarydrone]

[list]
[li]The majority of Fundamentalist Christians are to the Right of the political .[/li][/QUOTE]

Then I am in the Minority.

Really, if anyone calls me fundie, its not like I am highly offended or it ruins my day.

YMMV.

167

I don’t really understand why people would want to defend the use of a word as an epithet. I mean, sure, if it’s something that slips out because of frustration or anger from time to time, understandable. But mounting a defense of its use as a shorthand way of denigrating someone? I mean, even if all fundamentalists were evil anti-gay backwards-evolving slime, what is to be gained by attacking their positions and policies via names? Simplifying a movement or a person down into an element of rhetoric is a sure-fire way to make yourself lazy, uninformed, and clumsy when it does come time to argue against them.

If you want your fundies as a battle cry of derison to be proud of using, then Manhattan can have his Saddamites, can’t he?

168

No, again, you are talking about an entire culture. I might, however, not object to strenuously if someone called a radical Islamic fundamentalist a fundie.

Look, I get that using derogatory language is, in general, not a good thing and that we should aspire to better. That said, there really is a difference between derogatory language and hate speech. I can not believe that this is eluding you

169

Well, my guess is that the Left has seen this work so well for the Right that they are willing to give it a shot.

170

I’m actually really interested to hear replies–from Lib, grienspace, anyone–to Daniel’s question regarding the term “politically correct.”

171

Just what group is politically correct ?

172

Isn’t American Christianity an entire culture?

Do you believe that their needs to be a distinction between Muslims in general and those who believe in the inerrency of the Koran?

Look, its not eluding me, but I don’t hate the Japs or the Chinks the Jerrys or the Limeys either, even though I’m a Canuck.

173

I count about eight cultures in “American Christianity,” although I’m sure that number will change the next time I reconsider the proposition. (The idea that the Southern Baptist lady who repeatedly insisted that her twelve Catholic co-workers were going to Hell was of the same culture as her co-workers strikes me as odd.)

174

Not to someone on the other side of the ocean and who kneels 5 times a day.

175

I assumed he was Jewish, you moron.

And I’ll take back the “fundie” part of “fundie asshole”, if that’ll make you happier.

176

That too. Do you deny that you were corrected after accusing december of being a Christian? You’re so sad.

177

I deny that I ever accused december of being a Christian.

178

Folks, you’re missing my point. I find accusations that I water down the Gospel or will say anything to be popular to be offensive. I find the phrase “liberal Christian” used is used with contempt just as often as “fundie” is. Vanilla, as far as I’m concerned, you still owe me an apology for accusing me of watering down the Gospel and saying anything to be popular.

I don’t have the time or the energy to rehash a dozen Great Debates over homosexuality or who does or does not get saved. I’ve never pretended to be anything but unconventional. In fact, I stink at being conventional. My experience with Christ is mine and mine alone. I don’t think I’m required to justify it to anyone save Christ Himself, and I suspect I’m in for a certain amount of sighing from Him, although maybe I can score an “E” for effort.

I don’t use the term “fundie” much myself, and I don’t care for it much, either. On the other hand, if calling a person a “fundie” is hate speech while calling someone else a “liberal Christian” or making the accusations above isn’t, then I consider that an unfair double-standard. I really dislike having the faith which quite literally saved my life denigrated because I disagree with someone and that applies whether the person denigrating it is atheist, Christian or any other form of faith or lack of faith. Right now, objecting to the use of the term “fundie” while letting others slide is way too much like “We can offend you but you can offend us.” I spent a lot of my youth living by that standard, and I don’ t like it.

I’m sorry, but I cannot agree on this issue. No matter how offensive I find “watering down the Gospel” to be, I don’t want to see that phrase marked as hate speech. I would instead prefer to take it as an opportunity to explain why my faith is more akin to sweet, strong wine than water to me. I would rather explain why liberality is at the core of my faith rather than just write off the person using the the term.

There are people out there with legitimate complaints about Christianity as practiced by some Christians. One acquaintance of mine was physically abused by her fundamentalist Christian parents who would then talk about how evil she was and how they would sit in heaven and weep to see her suffering torments of hell for all eternity. Needless to say, while I’m sure she knows this behaviour isn’t typical of fundamentalist Christians or Christianity in general, it did put her off Christianity, and I’m afraid I really can’t blame her. I wish it were otherwise.

Please, don’t you understand that offensive is being given and taken on both sides? If I were a better Christian, it would be easier to turn the other cheek. If I were a better Christian, I probably would never have posted in this thread. I do try to understand and respect the beliefs of those who differ from me. I also fully admit they may be right and will accept the consequences if I am wrong, even if that includes an eternity of suffering. It’s just that I’m just as tired of having my faith insulted as the people who object to the term “fundie” are of having theirs insulted. Surely there must be a better way than having one word declared “hate speech”?

Respectfully,
CJ

179

I’m also interested in hearing Gaudere’s reply to my comments and questions addressed to her on page, what, 2? :wink:

At any rate, the OP said, “To me, intuitively, hate speech is the deliberate classification of whole groups of people by use of a term that they might reasonably believe to be pejorative.” I do not think that people might reasonably believe PC to be pejorative, which fits the exception I labeled as (1). As Gobear has said, and I agreed, practically any word can be contextualized as an insult. If there were hundreds and hundreds of posts calling you “beautiful” while consistently pairing it with “nutjob”, “whacko”, and “porn”, it ought to dawn on you sooner or later that people are not complimenting you.

The OP also allowed that my definition might be wrong, and that I am open to hear another. So far, hate speech seems to mean little more than expressing opposition to gay marriage.

I have his own words, thank you. I bought the book.

180

I’m sure there are foreign Muslims who are as likely to lump all Christians in the U.S. into one bag as there are Christians who are likely to lump Islam into a single culture. I am aware of multiple Muslim cultures (sometimes co-existing in the same country). I can hardly be held responsible for the simplistic beliefs of bin Laden or Robertson and I reject all such attempts to promulgate ignorance for the sake of seeking power.