I’m a bit puzzled about why people buy *expensive * cars that have manual transmission.
I know that some people prefer a manual transmission because it usually costs less than automatic transmission, it’s cheaper to repair, and the car’s fuel economy is better. But it’s unlikely that these factors would apply to someone buying an expensive cars (say, purchase price > $60,000).
That leaves these advantages for manual transmission:
car is usually faster than the same car with automatic transmission.
provides greater control in tricky situations
is more fun to drive
The reason that I hear most often is #2, but from what I’ve seen, almost nobody knows how to use manual transmission expertly to the point that the car will handle better than if the gearing was left to the automatic transmission. Also, the traction and stability control available in expensive cars does a better job of controlling the car than any driver, except for the experts. (What percentage of drivers are experts? What percentage of men are good lovers …)
#1 can be a factor in smaller, underpowered cars, but it seems to be irrelevant with 250+ hp engines, resulting in a difference of .2 sec in 0-60mph.
#3 is purely a matter of personal preference, but what about the downsides:
You have to take your hand off the steering wheel to shift (not many cars that have sterring wheel paddles, yet), resulting in possibly less control.
It’s just more work, especially in city driving. After all, there’s a lot going on, outside and inside the car. Why introduce additional complexity (even a small amount) unless necessary?
With powerful cars, the clutch is usually very heavy, sometimes resulting in a sore left leg, especially in stop-and-go traffic.
It’s practically useless on highways. With a powerful engine and typical acceleration requirements, shifting isn’t necessary. And if extra acceleration is needed, then automatic transmission will shift down … automatically.
Most people just don’t know how to shift properly. They shift too soon, too late, too often, and they don’t coordinate the use of the brakes properly. They would be more effective drivers if they let the automatic transmission do the job.
Well, there’s a thread comparing the merits of manual vs auto in Great Debates (I think) at the moment. My connection keeps dropping so I can’t search for it right now.
FWIW, I think it’s because people who are going to buy an expensive car are more likely to be car enthusiasts, or at least people that give a damn about the driving experience.
I’ve only ever driven an auto once - a rental car when I visited the US. I wanted a stick-shift but I couldn’t get one. I felt like a passenger in that car. It changed gear at random, it couldn’t anticipate hills (this was in California, including driving the Pacific Coast Highway) - where I would be changing down on the approach to a hill in order to maintain speed, the auto would only shift down once it started labouring up a hill. It was harder to control going down hills, too, because the engine braking wasn’t there.
So to sum up - it’s because people who splash a lot of cash on a car want to feel like they’re in control of the damn thing.
Just wondering, though: You do realize that you can shift down manually with an automatic transmission?
Also, (and I forgot this obvious point in my first post) most expensive cars now have an available triple-mode transmission: manual, auto, or auto with shifting at higher revs (sports mode). You can shift whenver you want, without having to use a clutch, or leave it automatic mode.
And yet, some people still choose a traditional manual transmission.
bouv, are you suggesting that a manual transmission is so illogical that there is no rationale other than “I like it”?
Of course it’s a matter of personal preference. But it’s not mindless.
There are many things that people do that I don’t do, and often I don’t really know why.
But there’s something peculiarly puzzling about driving a powerful, expensive car with manual transmission. (I guess there’s also something puzzling about driving powerful, expensive cars.)
See, I think the exact opposite. I’m amazed that they even make sports cars in auto versions. You’ve got all that power at your command, but it has to be applied through a slushbox. It’s like <racks brains for an analogy> buying a huge widescreen television and then using a rabbit-ears aerial. Or buying a top-end stereo system and hooking it up to market-stall speakers.
Of course, I’m British, which has a lot to do with my opinions. Over here, automatic cars are chiefly for the elderly and/or disabled. I was trying to find an accurate cite, but the closest I can find is that more than 80% of cars sold in Western Europe are manual. I suspect it may be even higher than that in the UK.
Let’s look at the numbers for a few cars:
BMW 645i
0-60 mph, Manual 5.5 sec, Automatic 5.7 sec
Top speed: 149mph, electronically limited (same for both transmissions)
Porsche Carrera S
0-62 mph: Manual: 4.6 sec, Automatic: 5.0
Top speed: Manual 182mph, Automatic 177mph
Not exactly the equivalent of watching a widescreen TV with rabbit-ears.
Then I looked at the Mercedes SL 500. What! No standard transmission available:
“More than 80% of cars sold in Western Europe are manual.” Probably because they’re cheaper and use less fuel. There are many cars in Europe that have diesel engines, for the same reasons. Very few diesel cars in the U.S.
My original comments were about automatic transmission in expensive cars. But I see that Mercedes agrees with me.
It’s just what you’re used to, I guess. For me, the automatic “depress gas pedal=go, depress brake=stop” experience is rather uninspiring. It’s like driving a bumper car, or a toy car. Shifting through the gears makes me feel more connected to what the car is doing - it’s me driving, not the car.
However, I will admit that on the long, wide, straight freeways, I appreciated the auto and cruise control. I could flip a switch and then relax a little, and stretch my legs. That was quite a refreshing novelty… driving at motorway speeds for extended periods in a car with stiff pedals and no cruise control can get tiring, I admit. I think that is another reason why auto is king in the USA - it’s such a big country, with big long (and often dull, I imagine) roads. If I lived there and did a lot of that sort of driving, I might well buy an auto with cruise control. Over here, the opportunities for using cruise control are pretty limited.
I’m with Colophon. . .why would you put an automatic in a nice car?
That SL500 is some sort of gimmicky shifting system. Sure, it’s closer to an automatic, but having a different shifting system sounds like part of the marketing of that car. Don’t forget that a lot of that stuff is being marketed to Americans. The newer generation of people with disposable income in America grew up on automatics.
Colophon was stretching for an analogy there. Maybe you could try it without stretching. . .it would be like buying a 4000 dollar Litespeed Titanium road bike frame and putting the autoshift system on it.
YOU simply want to be in control of the gears. Sure, you CAN make an automatic shift where you want it, but it’s not how they’re normally driven, and it’s not necessarily easy to go from 4th to 2nd when diving into a tight corner. And, that quick stomp for shifting an automatic doesn’t always seem to work.
Basically, having active control of your gear is as much of driving a car as using the gas and brake. If you’re just buying a run of the mill car, who cares? If you’re buying something nice, you want it.
Both my first wife and my current wife prefer manuals to automatics – it wasn’t until we entered the baby-on-board-minivan set that my second wife would even consider an automatic.
Both of them give the same reason – control. They really like being able to shift when they want to, to start off in 2nd gear, etc. As for the hassle of clutching and braking on city streets, well, it’s just something you do.
Of course, in their single days, one owned a Jaguar while the other had a Datsun 240Z, so that may have influenced their thinking.
Still a bit of a stretch. We are talking about passengers cars, right, built for driving every day? Driving to work, driving to the mall? Extending your analogy, should all passenger cars be built like Formula One cars?
Also, most cyclists don’t use even half the gear ratios, just like most drivers don’t know how to shift properly, so in some ways the analogy is apt.
It seems to me that you’re saying that someone who drives aggressively gets more satisfaction out of a manual transmission because he feels more connected to the car. My question, though, is how often do you drive aggressively? Besides danger of driving aggressively (accidents, injuries, and traffic tickets), most of the time you just can’t drive aggressively because of traffic conditions. So, most of the time you’re stuck with all the extra work of a manual transmission, with very little of the satisfaction: You’re on a straight road (most roads are straight, aren’t they?), traffic is heavy, there are many traffic lights, so it’s 1st to 2nd, stop, 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 2nd, stop.
Actually, I don’t want it, and I drive a new 540i.
No. I thought we were talking about expensive cars, not the Ford Taurus.
Again, I thought we were talking about expensive cars. We’re not talking about driving back and forth to the grocery store in your Z4.
There’s these garages behind my house. One of them has a Dino in it. One of them has a Z3 in it. The guys who drive them show up a couple times a month to go out tooling around the country in them.
You think a guy who is getting in his car on the weekend to go out motoring wants to avoid the “hassle” of shifting gears?
Even with a commuter car, some of us like to get a little fun out of the drive home from time to time. . .a little spirited driving after leaving the office to blow off some steam, dig?
Checking in as someone who prefers manual transmissions. I’ve only had two cars, but my little 3-cylinder manual got better pick-up than my 4-cylinder automatic, on hills or flat stretches. And, I did feel more in control of the car with a manual. Even prefer it in heavy traffic. It just felt like I had more to keep myself occupied because I had to pay attention to the car. Probably illusory.
But the best part was throwing it in neutral and rolling down the windward side of the Pali highway. Rush!
Numbers lie. Ok, well, maybe they just don’t give you the whole picture. If you’ve ever driven an automatic transmission when you have wanted to apply a little more power, or adjust the gearing slightly, then you know how frustrating it can be to drive an automatic transmission. Yes, some automatics allow for manual shifting, but many of them give you a “high” and “low” gear setting, when there are really 4 or more gears to choose from. Some of the “autostick” type transmissions are notably inferior to the manual transmissions.
Besides, to a lot of people, driving is about bonding with the car and the road. I guarantee you, even in commuter traffic, if you want to you can find several opportunities to give yourself that little boost of adrenaline by downshifting and punching it. And it’s a feeling you’re in complete control of, much moreso than with any form of automatic transmission. If you don’t understand it, you don’t understand it. You probably just don’t have the “car” gene.
Unless you’re driving in traffic or stopping on hills, there’s very little difference between driving a stick and an auto. After a few days, the shifting motion is every bit as automatic as blinking or turning the steering wheel. It’s not like we’re sitting there thinking “Okay, gotta get ready to shift. Clutch in, match revs, and GO!”.
This says it exactly. 80% of driving is mindless, 5% is hellish traffic, it’s that remaining 15% where you want to throw it into second, feel the car accelerate and look for the next turn.
BMW 530, specially ordered from Germany just so I could get a stick.
Come on, people like to drive! It’s fun to race away from a toll booth at times, to hear the engine whine as you go through the gears. Being in control, really in control, of a powerful piece of machinery is great fun.
No one buys a $100,000+ car without enjoying their time in a car. When money is not the object, why not buy what you like? For most of these people, the car is for enjoyment, not transportation.
It depends on what you mean by expensive car. If you mean sports car then yeah, alot of them have manuals and that is probably more to let someone feel like they are a part of their car and to provide better control. However luxury cars tend to have automatic, I think automatic is more or less standard on alot of luxury cars.