Yeah, that’s not the way it would play out in the world stage. The words “ethnic cleansing by Israel” come to mind.
No, I don’t suppose so. Hamas seems to think that anyone in Israel is a fair target. They are simply terrorists, after all.
I probably saw the same paragraph - no better link sorry.
Even if the Palestinians at the border are obviously vulnerable refugees? Hamas and their sympathizers already spin everything more than a Maytag washer.
Hmm. If that kept up for a year, that would be 730,000 people. Nowhere near the current Palestinian population, and probably not everybody who would take the offer, but a significant dent.
Not a big help for people who need to get out Right Now, of course. But suppose Egypt had been making that offer for a few years, even at half or a quarter of that level? With a path to citizenship, not just to a refugee camp?
I know, I’m dreaming.
And they became vulnerable refugees because of who again exactly?
Indeed. It would have been good.
But, as has been pointed out:
- Egypt Does Not Want Palestinians on their soil. They are a problem they don’t want to have
- Egypt likes having Gaza as a thorn in Israel’s side
- Hamas and other terrorist organizations do not want Palestinians to leave Gaza. They want them to be victims.
- The main point of many players in the mid-east is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Moving Palestinians or even helping them does not play into this long-game for them.
Yup.
But I wish the rest of the world would more often point all of this out.
Exactly. Camps in Gaza are more or less run by Hamas. Camps in Israel would not be. They could have a fence around them to keep Israelis safe, and limit who goes there, but they can also guarantee not to bomb them. Then as Gaza is occupied by the IDF, the refugees can move back in and start rebuilding.
Main advantage would be not requiring third countries like Egypt to take refugees, who they have to suspect will not be allowed to return home.
Yes. Into a closed and temporary refugee camp, not roaming around. Just somewhere women and children can be safe from the bombing and probably later street fighting.
When Israel was giving the Sinai back to Egypt back in the 1970’s they offered to throw in Gaza as part of the deal. The Egyptians didn’t want it. I’m not sure of the reasons why, but I also get the impression they still don’t want it.
There are over 2 million people in Gaza. 2,000 a day out of that number is a cruel joke. Who gets to win the escape lottery?
Also, don’t forget Hamas has also been having a say in who can go. What if they don’t want to play?
It’s in negotiations. Maybe the number will go up.
(No, I’m not holding my breath. Hamas wants Palestinians to remain there as human shields/victims)
…I need to point out that many Palestinians want to remain in Gaza, because they know that once they leave, they probably aren’t ever going to be allowed to go back home again. For many, it has nothing to do with Hamas. This is their home.
If they want to stay let 'em stay.
But for those who want to leave they should be given the option. Some people would prefer to be alive in exile than dead at home.
…I’m just pointing out that many that want to stay are choosing to stay, not being forced to stay.
I get this on some level. But being a North American, I guess I don’t have deep understanding of being that connected to a place for many, many generations.
I mean, If my home was a semi-bombed out place, run by terrorists, and one of my kids had died by falling down dangerous ramshackle stairs, and it was currently on fire, and the arsonist was living in the basement, I would not be keen to stay, even if it meant I would not be able to return to my precious home.
As I say, it’s hard for me to understand the deep, long term connection to a place. I suppose some folks there could trace ancestors back to 300 BC.
…perhaps it would help to listen to what many Palestinians have been saying over the last couple of days, rather than viewing it through the lens of a North American who doesn’t understand what their lives are like at all. They have homes. Being forced to abandon those homes, the complete uncertainty of life as a refugee in a place that is actively likely to be hostile to you, separation from extended family, losing all of your possessions, these are not insignificant things.
There is no light at the end of the tunnel. If they stay, they are fucked. If they leave, they are fucked. There is no good ending here. For decades, Palestinians have had to endure in an open-air-prison, suffering indignities that have been widely condemned by human rights groups. 65% of people in Gaza are under the age of 24. The median age for men and women is just 18. They have lived their entire lives under constant threat, under surveillance, under conditions that many consider apartheid.
Absolutely nothing that Hamas has done here is excusable, nor forgiveable. What they did was disgusting. Depraved. Evil. A crime against humanity. I’ve hesitated posting in any of these threads because there are real people on these boards who are suffering in ways I can’t even imagine, and they really don’t need to hear my opinions on this. Not now. Probably not ever. So this will be the only thing I’ll post in these threads.
But we need to stop talking about Palestinians as if they aren’t facing some terrible choices right now. That leaving would be easy. That those who choose not to leave are doing that at gunpoint. That Hamas and Palestinians are the same. This isn’t some abstract puzzle to be solved. These are people. And we are at the point where there will be no good options for them.
My heart is with the innocent people of Israel, who didn’t deserve any of this. And my heart is with the innocent people of Gaza, who didn’t deserve any of this.
Seriously.
The Palestinians have been screwed.
They were screwed by the formation of Israel.
Then screwed again by their “allies” and the international community who insisted they stay in refugee camps to make a political statement, rather than letting them relocate, like most refugees do. There was a bloody war that dislocated most of the population of Cyprus back around the same time. But those people were allowed to move into less hostile territory and start new lives. Today we don’t have a Cypriot crisis. My ancestors were refugees from the Tzar. They were lucky to get to the US before the US imposed immigration restrictions.
Stuck in an enormous prison, the Palestinians have since been screwed by the Israelis. Most of them have been screwed for their entire life.
It’s all horrible, all around.
I do believe that letting Palestinians who want to emigrate actually do so would be a win. That requires both that Israel let them leave, and more importantly, that someone else (Jordan, Egypt, Iran, the US, Russia, new Zealand, anywhere) let them in. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
And many that want to leave are unable to do so.