It’s been in place for what, 40 years or so? If the purpose of the embargo was to change Fidel Castro’s mind and make the country a democracy… well, it isn’t working.
So why not admit that, short of a direct military intervention we aren’t going to change things over there, and let americans travel there, and let ordinary cubans benefit from american business and tourism?
My knowledge of the matter is that the reason for the embargo was not only to change Fidel´s mind, but also to act as a cointainment to prevent… errr, “comunism spiil” over America (central and South) it didn´t work that much neither.
I´d like to know what are the current reasons for the embargo, if are the same as always have been, or are changed over time.
Blalron, I know this may sound a bit obtuse, but I think keeping the embargo will actually do some good for Cuba socially. The embargo, to an extent, preserves Cuba’s own culture- The United States has an almost borg-like tendency to assimilate its own culture into other countries.
Cuba to me feels like a country virtually unaffected by a passage of time and world events.
Because there’s a sizable group of Cubans-in-exile in Florida who’d get mad as all out ? Voting blocks in Florida are a precious commodity.
>Cuba to me feels like a country virtually unaffected by a passage of time and world events.
Like, say, North Korea. Preservation by poverty. I’ll bet the average Cuban would swap it for food and a good job.
IMO the US keeps the embargo on Cuba because of the embarrassment of having to admit it hasn’t worked, if they removed it. And the embarrassment of how the Bay of Pigs, and numerous CIA assassination and overthrow attempts, haven’t worked.
The purpose of the embargo is mainly to protect the financial interests of the Cuban fascists in Miami, like the Bacardi family and the Fanjul brothers, sugar barons of the Everglades. The Fanjul brothers donate copiously to the political parties, one to the Dems and the other to the Repubs. We overthrew Allende for Pepsi-Cola and tried to overthrow Castro for rum.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/cuba010323_bacardi.html
By all means, the embargo must end, if no other reason than it is a violation of WTO regulations.
I have no love for castro, and i agree that it is time to drop the embargo. To me, this would result in castro’s swift demise.
I also agree that the Anti-Castro Cubans in Florida would be miffed about it…but hey, we might as well get ridof castro sooner rather than later…the mess will onlyy get worse thelonger he’s alloed to stay!
When I went last year, the Cubans I talked to were themselves unsure of the future, but the general consensus was that a gradual drift towards a democratic free-market economy was inevitable. Due partly to the embargo (but mainly to the collapse of the Soviet economy on which it was reliant) Cuba is still a third world country where many goods are rationed, but the healthcare and education systems are incredibly effective given their small budgets: Truly a lesson to the West.
The most striking, almost overwhelming characteristic of ordinary Cubans (especially Cuban youth) is the reverence afforded to intellect and learning and the sheer dedication to the common good. Cuba has so much going for it that it really shoul prosper once the embargo which is 30 years out of date comes to an end. I hope that this prosperity does not diminish their deep sense of social responsibility.
I agree with AndrewT. It is exactly the same situation with Iran. The US foreign policy makers know very well that the sanctions against Iran are not in the best interest of the US. But how can they remove it when The President publicly calls Iran “an Axis of Evil”. Indeed, how embarrassing.
Meanwhile, diversions abound to explain the US behavior. For example, we don’t remove the sanctions in Cuba because of the strong political hold of the Cuban Mafia in Miami. And we don’t remove the sanctions on Iran because of the strong Jewish and Israeli lobby against it.
Some interestting points, along with the obligatory “Cuban fascists in Miami” comment. A few points of my own. Let’s be clear on what the US embargo means, from the US Treasury web site we get the following:
No products, techonologies, or services may be exported to Cuba from the US, directly or through another country. Exceptions are made for food, agricultural commodities, medicines and medical supplies, and informational material and publications.
Vessels that enter a Cuban port to trade goods and services are banned from entering a US port for 180 days. This excludes vessels trading in exempted or licensed goods.
Cuban goods and services are not allowed into the US. Exceptions are granted for cultural and informational products.
Also prohibited are transactions involving property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has interest.
Travel restrictions for US citizens are also in place, with a number of exemptions, all listed in the link above.
Obviously the US embargo does not apply to any other countries’ dealings with Cuba. Which is why I always find it funny that some will blame the poverty in Cuba on the US embargo, as if the US was the only country in the world. Cuba trades with every other country in the world, until they manage to piss off those countries as recently happened with the EU.
Cuba is completely flooded with tourists from every country you can think of, including regional countries such as Canada, Mexico and Chile, and more distant ones such as UK, Italy and Spain. Unless we’re going to assign some special quality to US tourists then the claim that tourism from the US will save the Cuban economy seems baseless.
Having said all that I should add that I think the embargo should be lifted. However let’s make sure we understand that lifting will strengthen the Castro government, and will not significantly change life for the average Cuban. Cuba’s government will still be a repressive dictatorship, and anyone who thinks different might want to think about examples of any country where a government change was brought about by a “tourist revolution”.
The embargo by the USA has probably had no impact, economically on Cuba.
An embargo is not a blockade, which is an act of war.
The USA is not the only polity on this planet that is capable of producing goods, and trading those goods, with polities of their choice.
Just about every European country capable of producing trade goods has traded with Cuba, without any problems, despite the embargo by the USA.
The level of misery of the Cuban people has remained unchanged throughout the duration of all of these wonderful happenings.
Is the embargo by the USA really such an important feature of the Cubans’ well being one way or the other?
I strongly doubt it.
Two things are being overblown here, I feel.[ul][li]Firstly, yes, it is absurd to lay Cuba’s relative poverty solely at the feet of the US embargo: Most of its problems stem directly from such an utter reliance on the Soviet economy that it has still not receovered from the collapse. However, I think that the sudden appearance of a trading partner of that magnitude a few miles away would very definitely provide benefits felt immediately by the average Cuban. (Although this might somewhat curtail their creativity in some areas: Havana must be full of car mechanics who can only be described as geniuses!)[/li] Secondly, go to Cuba. This “misery of the Cuban people” is very little in evidence, regardless of the rationing and the absence of democracy. They are politically very astute, and realise that blaming Castro, the embargo or indeed any single party for their lot is myopic: Where hate exists it is of greed, rampant consumerism and intellectual paucity. To a great extent, they accept a lesser standard of living, in line with the ideology of their hero Che Guevara.[/ul]I can say, hand on heart, that Cubans are amongst the happiest people I have come across.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SentientMeat *
**Two things are being overblown here, I feel.[ul][li]Firstly, yes, it is absurd to lay Cuba’s relative poverty solely at the feet of the US embargo: Most of its problems stem directly from such an utter reliance on the Soviet economy that it has still not receovered from the collapse. However, I think that the sudden appearance of a trading partner of that magnitude a few miles away would very definitely provide benefits felt immediately by the average Cuban. (Although this might somewhat curtail their creativity in some areas: Havana must be full of car mechanics who can only be described as geniuses!)[/li][/QUOTE]
Where to begin. You mention the fall of the Soviet block, while this did bring unbelievable hardship to Cuba, and I do mean unbelievable that’s a thread on its own, things where not so rosy while the USSR was a going concern. Everything in Cuba is and was rationed, from food to clothing to goods and services. This is part and parcel of Marxist idelology, the people can not be allowed to just “get” whatever they want, they must be given exactly the same as everyone else.
[QUOTE]
[li] Secondly, go to Cuba. This “misery of the Cuban people” is very little in evidence, regardless of the rationing and the absence of democracy. They are politically very astute, and realise that blaming Castro, the embargo or indeed any single party for their lot is myopic: Where hate exists it is of greed, rampant consumerism and intellectual paucity. To a great extent, they accept a lesser standard of living, in line with the ideology of their hero Che Guevara.[/ul]I can say, hand on heart, that Cubans are amongst the happiest people I have come across. **[/li][/QUOTE]
Are you saying the the average Cuban does not want a better standard of living? Or that they do but are willing to forgo it in exchange for ideological purity? Either way I must say you’re sadly misinformed. Every year the US interest section in Havana receives some 500,000 applications for the 20,000 visas the US has agreed to grant to Cubans. This number does not include the other 200,000 who apply every year as part of family reunification programs, nor the estimated 10-20,000 who try to leave each year by illegal means. This in a country of 11,000,000, where merely expressing a desire to leave the country means economic and political suicide.
>> I can say, hand on heart, that Cubans are amongst the happiest people I have come across.
Yep, those who manage to escape. And they do try hard by all means but only a few make it. The Spanish embassy in Havana is collapsed with marriages and visa petitions. Spanish men in their sixties have found they can go to Cuba for a week or two and return with a bride less than half their age. Wonderful land Cuba.
The embargo might have made some sense during the height of the cold war, but is pretty silly now. I agree pretty much with Andrew T, and I suspect we will see the embargo lifted once Castro dies and a new leader emerges.
As for the “Cubans are the happiest people on earth” idea, I guess that’s why so many risk their lives fleeing the country every year.
In my opinion the only reason the embargo exists today is presidential electoral politics. The party that lifts the embargo and recognizes Castro will forfeit Florida’s electors.
There’s no denying that Castro is a cruel tyrant, but to continue this embargo while granting most favored nation status to the Chinese (after the carnage of Tianamen) seems illogical. I believe the US could exert far more positive influence on Cuba by opening up trade and investment there.
"Cuba is still a third world country where many goods are rationed, but the healthcare and education systems are incredibly effective given their small budgets: Truly a lesson to the West. "
Sorry** SentientMeat**, this is simply Castrospeak.
Modern medicine is mostly modern diagnostic and teatment machinery and education is just propaganda if not based in truth.
But truely the lesson to the West is…
How can we get our Medical Doctors to work for $30.00 a week like the doctors do in Cuba instead of the $90.00 per hour that they average here in the states? (yes, I agree, our doctors are greedy pigs.)
“I can say, hand on heart, that Cubans are amongst the happiest people I have come across.”
Say SentientMeat, did you happen to see those quaint Cubans that crossed the Gulf of Mexico in a 1948 minibus on TV yesterday. My, my, they looked happy. Maybe they didn’t know that the last escapees from Castroland were sent straight back to Cuba by our ever-diligent Immigration Department.
And upon their return Uncle Castro promptly had four of them shot.
Thanks a lot, President Bush!__ :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack:
It’s not that simple. Since the mid-70’s the US has been trying to open trade with Cuba. Carter’s administration was in the process of opening talks with Castro, in the hopes of thawing relations between the US and Cuba. Castro promptly ordered an invasion of Angola by Cuban troops, which torpedoed the effort. Clinton was talking along the same lines, and Castro promptly shot down two US civilian airplanes over international waters. More recently GWB had lifted key parts of the embargo allowing for the sale of goods to Cuba and expanded travel and money transfers, and Castro saw fit to publicly crack down on dissidents.
What this means is that the US lifting of the embargo is likely to be little more than a symbolic move, as it is clear that Castro will have nothing to do with the US, probably because he understands that his hold on power will not hold up.
The embargo is maintained because some yokels down south want it maintained. Up here in north, we want to sell to Cuba, and we’ll let 'em mortgage their sugar futures to us into forever to buy our stuff.
But inbreds in Florida won’t stand for it.
By “Up here in north”, do you mean Canada? Because Canada already trades to Cuba. If on the other hand you mean the US, you might want to check the votes on Helms-Burton, IIRC it passed overwhelmengly in both houses of Congress, so it’s a good bet your own congressman voted for it.
As you Cuba mortgaging their sugar futures, have you taken a look at Cuba’s foreign debt and their record of payment? The term “lousy credit risk” comes to mind.