I see. So the proud boy who was bashing in the Capitol window with a police shield (That I’m sure he didn’t bring with him to the event, if you know what I’m saying…) - what are his needs that require attention?
It’s not hyperbole. Not at all.
This goes a long way towards explaining why you don’t seem to understand the depth of the creek that moderate Republicans like yourself find themselves standing in.
Evangelicals love Trump. Every nasty profane liberal-hating inch of him. He’s what they have been waiting for, their ultimate weapon in the battle against godless secularism. Some of them have even worked him into their “End Times” narrative.
I’m not saying all evangelicals believe this - “evangelical” covers a wide range of beliefs and practices, and some of them are more …what’s that Republican word…transactional in their love for Trump, he gives them what they want so they love him. But others, the more fundamentalist ones, are true believers and even the QANON types believe they’re acting in the service of God.
Here’s a video of the insurrectionists “raiding” Congress. It’s a long video, but I’m asking you to fast forward to the 8 minute mark. Then you will see everyone inside the chamber stopping to pray for one minute and twenty seconds, lead by the Q-shaman guy with the ram horns. These are deeply religious men with the very common fundamentalist contempt for the laws of man. And they aren’t going anywhere.
ETA- the “cover photo” for the video is from the section I described.
81 million Americans voted for Joe Biden because we wanted him to reverse the regressive policies of the past for years and enact the policies he ran on. That’s what we elected him to do, and, as I’ve heard insistently over the past four years, elections have consequences. It is a matter of fact that not only did Joe Biden win the election, but it wasn’t particularly close.
If Republicans want to add a couple of conservative tweaks to liberal legislation in exchange for their vote, we’ll listen if the tweaks don’t weaken it too much, that’s bipartisanship. But we aren’t going to pass conservative legislation or not do anything at all in the name of “bipartisanship” because you’re redefining the word.
That would be stupid since despite our slim congressional margin, we have other avenues we can use to enact our policies. Avenues, I may add, that were opened wide and paved smooth by Republicans - Thanks!
Now, I don’t think the millions of people that believe Trump won are evil, they’re mostly just ignorant or gullible. But they shouldn’t have access to the tools of a technological society because they’ve proved they don’t have the discernment to use them safely. The social media companies are off to a good start, at least.
Preventing black people from accessing the ballot box.
…I think you should try listening to some of what former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh has to say.
Some background: Walsh was a Tea Party member. He implied Obama was a Muslim. Said “if Trump loses, I’m grabbing my musket.” Conservative that leans strongly libertarian. He tried to primary Trump but the Republican party essentially blocked him. He’s one of the few people who talks to Republicans every day on his talk show. This is what he thinks.
So here’s the thing. You don’t have to listen to us. You can listen to people like Walsh. Walsh believes that its Trump’s party now. They have embraced MAGA and there is no going back. The silence from almost everyone on the Republican side about people like Marjorie Taylor Greene is deafening. She is the future of the party. And its going to get worse.
And here’s how it could get worse:
-
If the overinflated stock market collapses, it could wipe out retirements and jobs, and get worse.
-
If we miss the deadline for keeping millions and millions of people on unemployment income and in their homes, it could get worse.
-
If the vaccine roll-out continues to flop and we’re still dealing with shut-downs, lock-downs, hundreds of thousands of deaths, medical bankruptcies, mass hunger, and a transfer of wealth as a result of the working class’s collapse and the technology billionaire class’s concentration of economic power, it could get worse.
We are very, very close to having a Weimar event. And most will never realize or accept this - until it happens.
We’re very, very close.
Now.
I’ve been called a nutter and chicken little for my predictions. Most of my critics are gone because they know I was right and don’t want to face me. I don’t care.
But let me say this much: as bad as January 6 was, honestly, it was absolutely nothing. Nothing compared to what can happen.
My fellow Americans, you look outside your windows of your residences and outside your windows as you drive to work, and you accept the lies that you tell yourselves - that all is well, that there is nothing to fear because things function now as they did yesterday.
You do not know. But you will. In time.
…I read this tweet from Walsh last night and it really just hit me how bad things are gonna get.
For those who don’t want to click: Walsh is commenting on the “Message to the Mob” from Taylor Greene that called out the “radical left-wing Democrat mob and Fake News” who are trying to “take her out.” What Walsh is calling out are media outlets like MSNBC that are treating statements like this as “normal”, still playing the “both sides are as bad” card they have that they have always played. Trump is gone, so they are acting as if everything is back to normal.
This utterly bonkers statement from Taylor Greene isn’t treated as an utterly bonkers statement from Taylor Greene. Its just reported on as news and not as the clear and present danger that it really is. MAGA hasn’t gone away.
Here’s what I would say about the situation right now: it’s amorphous.
The fact that it’s amorphous might give some people comfort. It’s not a danger that they can easily recognize. It’s changing. The fact that we’ve been able to put down the Capitol riot and will likely prosecute hundreds, if not thousands, of people in response fills our bellies full of satisfaction that the ‘system works’.
Radicals get prosecuted, even put to death. That doesn’t stop radicalism. It’s a hunger that’s hard to satisfy.
Off topic, but my fear is that America, which is not a perfect democracy by any stretch but the powerful democracy that the world needs, is squandering opportunities to stop the world’s most important authoritarian regime: China. The next 5-10 years could determine the next 50-100, and perhaps the next 500-1000 years. Not hyperbole.
Victor Klemperer, a Jewish professor of romantic languages living in Germany, wrote in his diary: “Since then day after day commissioners appointed, provincial governments trampled underfoot, flags raised, buildings taken over, people shot, newspapers banned, etc., etc…A complete revolution and party dictatorship. And all opposing forces as if vanished from the earth…No one dares say anything anymore, everyone is afraid.”
People believe the “normal”…until it is no longer normal.
And then, that becomes ‘normal’.
If you think we are any less human, any less flawed, than we were in 1933, well, continue with those thoughts.
See where they lead.
Jump into the River Styx.
Democrats. On whether the rule of law should apply to the people who tried to subvert democracy and incited riots.
Sure; I’d be happy with just Trump and a few of the closest enablers (e.g. Hawley, Cruz, Jordan, Gaetz). If they correctly face sanction and/or have to publicly come to terms with what they did that might make this less likely to happen in future and the tens of millions of americans who’ve been lied to might wake up.
It’s not about banning certain speech though, it’s about leaders needing to acknowledge what they said, how baseless it was, and what it led to. Right now we’re still in a state where the lies are continuing and no-one has acknowledged anything (apart from that the riots were bad, mkay).
Y’know, it is a bit easier to meet people halfway if they don’t lie through their fucking teeth about where they are in the first place.
Dunno.
~Max
I think you are right about China. However, I don’t share your optimism.
I’m not particularly familiar with dispensionalism, good on you for reminding me of that. I had been writing off the kind of fundamentalism described by Rolling Stone (to be honest it doesn’t make much sense to me, theologically, but I guess that’s another topic).
So, wild guess, maybe 10-15% of Americans have a religious obligation to ensure their Trump/GOP-aligned political goals are met. If they don’t do so, they risk not being raptured - seven years of Tribulation (?) under the Antichrist(s).
Just what do we do about these religious extremists? They’re asking for political forgiveness and cooperation.
This
But they shouldn’t have access to the tools of a technological society because they’ve proved they don’t have the discernment to use them safely.
is not an option, IMO.
~Max
Okay, well, Mr. Walsh doesn’t seem to have a way forward. You can skip to the end part of the interview, he says the solution is that the GOP is now Trump’s party, that it’s dead… for conservatives. That conservatives and never-Trumpers like him will have to go independent for a while, until a new party system emerges.
Then he says it’s up to the Democrats to govern well in the meantime.
I mean, that’s not really a path forward. That’s betting the whole farm on Democrats staying in power - unlikely since we just had a census and the GOP won big at the state level. Plus, it doesn’t address the problem of not having a supermajority in the upper chamber, or that Trump appointed so many conservative judges. You can’t get many things you want done without GOP votes. It’s a bad bet, IMO.
~Max
I think, keep it under ten trials or so. But you have to realize all will be acquitted because politics and lack of smoking gun evidence of criminal activity. If you need the punishment to justify time spent, my prediction is that you won’t get it from legislative trials, so don’t bother.
With Trump I think he’s close enough to the line that making Congressmen&women commit to a public vote is worthy in and of itself. With Hawley & Cruz I think they could get a slap on the wrist for egregious ethics violations (fundraising during the riot). For others I don’t see the worth.
~Max
…yeah, but the thing is I never suggested that Mr. Walsh was presenting “a way forward?” You said you didn’t think there was widespread religious devotion to Trump. You thought it was hyperbole. I don’t think it is. And I think that a guy like Walsh, who is one of the people who used to pander to the “tea party crowd” and now feels partly responsible for the monster that he helped create, who talks to the MAGA crowd on his talk show several times a day, I think a guy like Walsh knows a bit more about these people than the rest of us. But YMMV.
But knowing them doesn’t mean he has all the answers. Hell, there are people in this thread who have predicted what will happen every step of the way who don’t really “have a way forward”. Most people are just like me: watching America roam from crisis to crisis, like a slow-moving train-crash, knowing the train is going to hit the wall, yelling as loudly at everyone “the train is about to hit the wall!!!” while everyone else tries to pretend the train will stop before it crashes.
And if you were to ask me “what is the best way forward?” My answer would probably be “how the fuck do I know?” Its an extraordinarily big question. What do you do when a cult effectively takes over a political party and the cult enjoys the support of millions of people? I’ve got a few ideas, but am not really in the mood to outline them here right now. And there is a big difference between “suggesting a way forward” and “getting millions of people on board with my suggested way forward.”
…sorry for the double post. But I mean, yeah. The Democrats have to hold onto power. If Democrats don’t hold power then America is fucked. MAGA isn’t going away. If you oppose MAGA then you need to be acting now to keep them out of power in every conceivable possible way. Governorships. The Mayor. The Sheriff. City Council. School boards. I mean: holding at the State level should just be a given. But you’ve got to win every else as well. This isn’t a battle between two rational actors any more. Its going to be a fight and they are never ever going to let up. You’ve got to push back and always keep pushing back.
And back in 2018 nobody thought the Dems had a chance to win the Senate. But they did: and they did it on the backs of black and marginalized grassroots campaigners. They aren’t going to stop fighting. But they can’t do it alone. This isn’t somebody else’s battle.
Has it occurred to you that what he wants is the overturn of the US election because he didn’t like the outcome?
Yep, well put.
The message over many years has been that “partisan politics” is the problem, and that we should reach across the aisle and get “bipartisan consensus”.
But right now, America essentially has only one major political party. Only one party is talking about policy, and how to make American’s lives better (whether you agree or not with their ideas).
The former opposition just wants to start a war, with reality, with brown people, heck with even Republicans who don’t pledge fealty. They spend all day peddling dangerous misinformation. They aren’t responsible adults and we need to do all we can to not let them near the levers of power.
I just had to come back and respond to these paragraphs because they got stuck in my head for most of the night. It sounds to me like you were trying to find a gentle way to say …You have to understand that Republicans are the sorest losers ever to lose an election, but if you Democrats stay real quiet for the next four years and if your new President doesn’t do any of things he promised he would do for you, we won’t gun you down in the street like dogs.
Really, you sound like some kid trying to convince his older brother to tiptoe real quiet when walking past daddy’s room, cause daddy doesn’t like it when he’s disturbed after a late night and he’ll beat you if you wake him up. Except the older brother has been the one taking the brunt of daddy’s beatings for a while now, and he’s not playing anymore.
You do understand that the Trumpism is abusive, right? Their stated motto of “If you hit us, we’ll hit you back ten times harder” is the very definition of abuse. The party you fell in love with doesn’t exist anymore, except in your memories. They aren’t going to get better or change back. You might have been able to ignore it as you watched them beat up people you don’t like much for four years, maybe you even convinced yourself that those people deserved it. But now that they’re coming for you, you’re going to find out that no matter how you fold the towels, it’s never going to be good enough and no matter how much you practice, you’re still getting punched out for doing it wrong.
No, just no. If the violence, sedition and civil war you referred to in your post happens, it won’t be Republicans vs Democrats. It’ll be Republicans vs the entire US Government and their military, and I know who I’ll place my bets on.
The way to ensure that the violence and sedition continues is to continue to minimize it.
If we’d reacted the way we should’ve to the storming of state houses over COVID restrictions, maybe the yahoo Republicans would’ve realized that it’s wrong to storm legislative buildings even when you don’t like what’s happening inside. If there had been some real public consequences for the men that conspired to lkidnap and execute Gretchen Whitmer, maybe they would’ve realized that attempting to kidnap and execute a public official for doing something you don’t like is not only wrong but majorly and seriously wrong.
And now that Mr Trump has announced that he’s going to pursue an affirmative defense to the charges of incitement to insurrection, it’s all the more important that we show our strength by hunting down and persecuting every single insurrectionist to the full extent of the law, like we did after 9/11.
It the only way to show the yahoo branch of the Republican Party that violence and sedition is wrong and that Joe Biden won the 2020 election by large margins in both the electoral and popular vote.
Oh, and I can’t be bothered to multiquote, but I’m a little puzzled by your your lack of awareness of the connection between Trumpism and evangelicalism. It’s not just a factor in the insurrection, it’s been the driving force behind the entire Trump Administration.
Seriously, did you really spend four years thinking the Democrats disliked Betsy DeVos just because she was stupid?
Did you not know that the DeVos family has spent millions in a years long effort to weaken the separation of church and state with regards to education, and that she explicitly considered her appointment to be a return on her investment? Did you really miss the fact that a whole lot of Mike Pompeo’s State Department decisions were seemingly driven by rapture theology?
You’re a smart guy, did you really miss all this? Where do you get your in depth news?