True words about Republican terrorists. Even if they simply park their rigged RV outside the Hooters, It’s still devastating to those affected.
I don’t think they’ll keep up this level of protection, but what we might see is a decrease in access not just at the capitol but at state houses. People will complain about it, and say it’s not constitutional or whatever, but I think it’s inevitable.
Yeah pretty much. The Trump mobs have largely carried out violence in the style of a trump rally, not some kind of highly-organized terrorist cell.
It’s pretty easy to infiltrate the group and it’s also pretty easy to feed them false information, since their critical-thinking skills are necessarily lacking.
I hope I’m not tempting fate by saying I don’t see any reason that this is going to change.
The events of Jan 6 were easy to see coming, we just had a pres that wanted it to happen so it was allowed to happen.
So far. And I believe that’s only because they had control of every branch of govt except the house before that, so their motivation was relatively low. It doesn’t have to be organized. A series of Tim McVeigh’s will do the trick. And it will not conveniently happen when it’s expected.
I’m also mainly referring to a point where we’re at, or nearly approaching, civil war levels of violence, at which point there’s will be highly trained ex-military and law enforcement in the fray to provide logistics, not some randos in mommy’s basement. To treat this as the “JV team” like we did ISIS at the beginning is a big mistake.
Lets hope it never comes to that.
“civil war levels of violence”?
You think we’re going to reach over 600,000 dead? Do you think those ex military and police extremists can fight our actual military to that level of casualties? I think we may see things like The Troubles in Ireland, bombings and things of that nature going forward. But I do not see carnage the likes of the actual Civil War because the crazies are not as organized, numerous, or geographically concentrated like the Confederacy. But then, what do I know?
There is a bit of a category error here, or at least confusing the different types of “forgiveness” being discussed.
Forgiveness of voters is just a strawman. As you said, those voters aren’t asking forgiveness, but more importantly, no forgiveness is on offer.
What we seem to be talking about is impunity for government malfeasance and criminal conduct. Because conservatives are so caught up in the cultural type of narcissism, they can’t distinguish between condemnation of them, and condemnation of politicians they support. They experience their team’s misfortunes and humiliation as if it happened directly to them. Thus they want their own bad actors to be forgiven so that they can avoid that feeling of secondhand shame.
I don’t know what we do with people like that. They really don’t need to be forgiven; they could easily admit loss and regroup for a comeback in 2022 or 2024. But they can’t do that because their own self-identity is so entwined in these narcissistic parasocial relationships.
In other words, it’s a cult. You can’t forgive people out of a cult. You’re the one who needs chastening and forgiveness, not the cult. So there’s no point in even talking about forgiveness in the usual sense of redemption.
Nah…I don’t think so.
I think January 6th was the first and last battle in this little civil war, and the only reason they got so close was the Executive Branch of the federal government was complicit. But we have real leadership in Washington now, not some criminal con man installed by a bunch of racist cosplaying trolls.
So what if police officers around the country think Trump won? If they keep it to themselves, no problem. If they blather about it on social media they’ll lose their accounts and maybe their jobs. If they actually try to do something more, they’ll spend the rest of their lives in federal prison. Easy. If enough of them do it, if ya’ll rise up…we can build more federal prisons, or there’s always Gitmo.
I’m tired of these veiled “unity or civil war” threats where “unity” means “we get to intimidate you into doing nothing for the next four years”. But the Republican intimidation thing only works on other Republicans.
I think the way forward is easy and it seems to be working out just fine. The 81 million people that voted for Biden will get to see the policies we voted for enacted, and we care exactly as much about what the 74 million Trump voters want as Trump voters cared about what Democrats wanted in 2016. We don’t need them and the whole “fighting back” thing will be fun to watch.
And if any yahoo states actually try to secede…please please please, I need the entertainment. That’ll last until we ( “we” being the triple D federal government ) cut off Social Security payments to the no longer US residents.
Yeah, the right wing media is going to keep fanning the flames, but they might lose a little traction, because 24/ 7 of “LOL, we pwned the libs again” is way more fun than 24/7 of Boo Hoo Hoo the libs owned us.
And we don’t need to listen to that anymore anyway, we have a technological society to run.
TL/dr Bring it on, but we aren’t changing our behavior because of fear of violence. We don’t negotiate with terrorists
(bolding mine)
Great post, 100% agree. But I have no idea what “triple D federal government” means! My first thought was a bra size, but when I Googled it I got this:
I’m guessing that’s not what you meant, either. 
Democratic House, Senate, and Presidency, I imagine.
Yep, that’s it.
“Keep your gov’mint hands off my Social Security checks!”
Thanks! 
Do you thing, whatever happens next (and I hope nothing), is going to be a carbon copy of what happened before? Successful terrorists attack are, generally, not predicted in advance. We have evidence that there’s 70M people with a similar enough mindset to the “criminal conman” to vote for him. A fairly large contingent of gun nuts that, year after year, show up in the thousands at statehouses (predictable events) openly and fully armed, even walking around the insides. An attack isn’t going to happen with event permits. The boogaloo movement is so well known that even the average person has heard of it. Large contingents of Republicans in the enforcement mechanisms (federal and state) you think will prevent this from happening. We know this. Nearly every single person that’s is a potential problem during Trump is still here under Biden, with the same attitudes. You can pooh-pooh this as the “JV squad”, and that’s a big mistake imo.
So we have a significant amount of evidence that something will happen (cause, you know, stuff HAS happened), and, imo, very little evidence of a hunky-dory “Uncle Joe will fix and protect us from everything” future. Surely you know how FEW people it takes to cause major destruction? I mean, really. Do you need examples? You think they’ve patched every hole you can imagine? I wish I could be as optimistic as you are, but I’m not. Also, secession without a fight is not going to happen, so that’s right out. Didn’t happen last time, wouldn’t happen now.
Abosultely I can see 600K dead, if an actual civil war happens (which is not just predicted by loons, BTW). Especially if the “good guys” don’t cave. I think that’s actually a drop in the bucket. 600K people died with 1/10th of the population we have now. By the time it DID become a civil war, it woudn’t just be a disorganized, small amount of “crazies”. That wouldn’t even be a war, more like a skirmish. Obviously it would not be the same tactically as the last civil war. I don’t see the enemies conveniently putting on uniforms, they’ll look like us, talk like us, be virtually indistinguishable. And 400M guns in just the civian circulation will be just another unique twist. It would be a fucking nightmare if it ever happened, IMO. Make our forays into the middle east and enemies like ISIS look like a joke. Hopefully it doesn’t, but I’m not nearly as optimistic as some people here.
It’s impossible for Democrats to hold at the state level, because right now Republicans have a significant majority. I’m counting 31 R-controlled legislatures, 24 of them with a Republican executive. Since Minnesotta’s legislature is split, that leaves 18 D-controlled legislatures, 15 of them with a Democratic executive.
~Max
And how are you going to do that?
~Max
I’m sorry to have given such an impression, the last thing I want is for our elected officials to stay quiet for four years and do nothing. My concern is that being to aggressive with Republican officials (due to their actions under Trump) will cause gridlock, leading to a Biden-do-nothing Presidency, leading to significant Republican gains in future elections. In the alternative, if you go nuclear with the Senate, gerrymandering and reapportionment will produce minor Republican gains in 2022 and 2024, and then all those laws will be repealed as the narrow Republican majority turns the rules back against you.
~Max
To be honest, yes, I did think DeVos & Pompeo were just stupid (still do, by the way). Once I made that assumption there was no reason to dig deeper. I did know that there was a thing about rapture theology and pro-Israel foreign policy, but this was obscure knowledge in the back of my head. I didn’t make the connection wrt Pompeo’s state dept.
~Max
…but you’ve pivoted from “unlikely” to “impossible.” Both can’t be true. What you’ve quoted was in response to the former. Have you changed your position?
Fight like hell?
I mean what do you suggest? This leopard isn’t about to change its spots.
I could speculate. I think it will be different for each person, some might feel like they’ve been screwed by the health care system, some might be in dire financial straights (despite being middle age and/or middle class), some might have family/spousal issues. Normal things, I think. Somewhere down the line I guess most of these people have lost faith in government, probably rationally, because some need or set of needs were not met.
I mean yes, there are some people who hate government because of equal employment opportunities cutting into their former privilege or something. Some are neo-Nazis or white supremacists, but I don’t think the average insurrectionist falls into that category.
My point is that something has to be broken before radical change becomes attractive.
~Max
I don’t understand what you mean when you talk about how bad it’s going to get “if the good guys don’t cave”.
What do you mean by “cave”? Donald Trump lost the election. What does “cave” look like to you?
The Democrats can’t stop doing all the stuff the right wing media accuses them of doing, because for the most part we’ve never done it. Joe Biden is going to everything he can to keep the campaign promises he made, because that’s what a clear majority of the country wants, he won by a resounding majority in both the electoral and popular votes. He’s going to do what every winning candidate does, because elections have consequences.
If there’s violence and bloodshed, it’s because Republicans and right wing media brainwashed a bunch of gullible people that are also Republicans and told them to kill traitor Republicans and Democrats. It’s a big problem for Republicans. I’m not going to deny that it’s a problem for Democrats as well, but it’s not one we can help fix since we had absolutely zero responsibility for starting it.
And it’s a way bigger problem for Republicans.
But, I don’t think it’s going to be a problem, for a couple of reasons. Now this is a reversal of opinion for me, before January 6th I was concerned about this.
While I totally predicted the events of Jan 6th, I did not count on the strength and effectiveness of the response. I thought Trump would be allowed to continue to tweet and jack up his base and issue veiled calls for violence after Jan 6th, and that Trump would also block efforts to secure the inauguration.
But here’s why I think we’ll avoid widespread violence
a) I think the cohort is question is actually pretty cowardly when it comes to anything resembling a fair fight. They can get wild when they are in packs and armed, like they did on Jan 6th, but it only takes a trivially small number of angry protestors armed with signs on sticks, to make them wet their pants and cry and run home with their guns. I don’t really think they’ll have the stomach for it.
b) The people that breached the Capitol on Jan 6th are all going to be in for a world of hurt, legally speaking…and it’s already started for them. And they are going to round up everyone and follow the money and get the organizers…they’ve already made several connections between the militia groups and the political and fundraising groups. I read that it’s going to be the biggest, most comprehensive investigation since 9/11 —- . I think the near certainty of twenty years in federal prison might be a strong deterrent to some of these patriots.
c) if there is any sort of widespread violence, it will be the END of the Republican Party. They’re already in trouble, the cloth of the party is frayed to where it’s all fringe…but they’re in trouble now, and that will double if there’s violence. They spent so much time radicalizing the blue collar class that they’re at risk of losing the support of big business and Wall Street.
d) The motivation for the Jan 6th attack was to prevent Joe Biden from being inaugurated. That ship has sailed, and you have to be really really really deep into the CT to believe that can be reversed. I think most of them think the election was stolen and the Deep State won.
I don’t see any indication that these are people that are into violence for violence’s sake.
e) There was a subset of evangelicals I was concerned about, the ones that had melded Trump into their End Times theology. I’ll admit they’re still a bit of a wild card, but I think they’ve been waiting a long time, they’re used to waiting, and they can wait a bit longer. And Trump did throw them under the bus.
So, I’m not as worried as I used to be. But even if I was, I wouldn’t recommend that the Democrats stop working on their legislative mandate.
This turned out to be a really long post, and I’ve seen a bunch or responses come into the thread since I started.