Damn, this one is really fucked up. Everyone knows it’s supposed to be a Jew and a pizza.
What, is it supposed to scare them off or something?
You should have told one of your own.
Q. What do you call a black guy flying a plane?
A: A pilot, you racist bastards.
MJinks got it in one. There’s a time and place for just about everything, and I think your sister may have just been trying to lighten the mood, not knowing you’d take offense. I wasn’t there, I don’t know her attitude, but I just don’t find jokes of this nature to be patently offensive.
Ensign Edison, I’m sorry, both for the loss of your mother and your loss of respect for your sister.
I don’t understand it either. I used to be casual friends with a couple. The last time I was at their house, her husband and a good friend of his started saying very racist things, things I haven’t heard since a certain racist organization tried to invade this board. I spoke up; I tried to get them to stop; I walked out and haven’t spoken to them since. They weren’t joking. These are people who I would describe as intelligent and kind, except they’re also racists. They know something’s wrong, and I don’t know how to politely tell them I don’t associate with bigots.
Sometime when things are less stressful, can you take your sister to lunch or something and tell her how wrong and offensive you thought those jokes were? Is this like her? Do you think she’ll listen or will she grumble about even you requiring her to be PC? She really may not have been thinking.
Please accept my condolences.
Yeah, I don’t see what the problem with racist/sexist other offensive jokes are if told in the right context and not told by people who believe them. I don’t buy the fact that it helps to spread racism-- if you’re racist, you already are, and some jokes about the people you’re joking about aren’t going to convince you. Do we actually think Polish people put screen doors on submarines? Do we actually believe all Jews are good with money? I guarantee you jokes weren’t the first things to put those stereotypes in the people’s minds who believe them.
That being said, it might not have been the best time to tell those jokes, but I don’t believe that jokes like that are inherently bad or wrong.
And marshmallow, I hadn’t heard that one, and I laughed too.
ETA: oh, and I forgot to ask: what was the last thing that went through Ayrton Senna’s mind?
EETA: oh, like his tires? Like the joke about the fly hitting the windshield and it’s his asshole going through his brain. I get it.
I’m curious. If you don’t find “jokes” of this nature to be patently offensive, can you tell me what, in your opinion, *would * make them offensive? I mean, I know that I shouldn’t tell the Holocaust jokes at the next Yom HaShoah memorial service that I attend, so when can I tell them?
And you, too, BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed. Maybe it’s me, but I honestly don’t know the appropriate time to try to get a chuckle out of the gut-wrenching horrors of the lynching of defenseless Blacks or of the Holocaust.
I mean, really. Six million Jews → ashtray?!
Yeah, not seeing the humor.
ETA: And before anyone tells me that I’m too sensitive or that I’m in favor of a Disneyesque, sanitized kind of humor, you couldn’t be more wrong. I happen to have a highly prurient sense of humor (what some might deem inappropriate). I just think that some things shouldn’t be joked about. We’re not there yet, and I don’t know when we ever will be.
Racism may not be dead, but it sure sounds like it’s spinning its wheels. Hasn’t anyone come up with some new jokes in the past 20 years?
Depends on the company. Like I said, MJinks got it right when he or she says it’s all about who says it, how they say it, what the intent is, and who it’s said to. To be honest, I don’t find much of anything offensive. I haven’t felt offended by anything in years.
To each his own.
shrug I don’t think it’s “too soon” for anything, but again, your mileage may vary. No one is expected to have the same sense of humor as another person, and thanks for explaining yours. It’s perfectly fine if you don’t find it funny; I just won’t use a black or Jew or gay or anything like that kind of joke to try to entertain you. 
I tried to post last night but the puter shit the bed. I sent but apparently it didn’t go through.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, OP. We grow wiser with time and your sis is young. You had enough to deal with, considering your mom’s death, to deal with enlightening her about racism at the time.
My best to you and your family.
There’s a type of humor that relies on sheer shock value to shake people up. Most don’t find it funny - some do. I don’t think there’s anything surprising or new about any of this.
It’s all about the context. After a funeral? Not appropriate. And casually throwing around the word nigger in those jokes kind of makes it a little more offensive. Most people have a hard time using that word freely, so I would suspect those that do it to maybe be a little more likely to actually be racist than someone telling the same jokes but without using that word.
Ensign E, my condolences.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. The fact that you made a point of not participating speaks well of you; you have to draw the line on your reaction somewhere.
Well, either that or decapitate anyone who makes a racist joke in your presence, which frankly doesn’t seem practical.
Personally I find jokes of that sort highly offensive, given that our society is not completely post-racism yet. They do still contribute to an atmosphere which is condusive to actual harm, the sociologists call them “permission-giving statements”. Some people will internalize that mentality and then go on to act out that behavior.
Also, I’ve never heard anyone in my life ever made a racist joke, or know anyone who thought black people were somehow inferior or less capable, etc. I live in a fabulously multicultural small city with people from probably every corner of the planet, so that probably has something to do with it. Racism is something I only hear about on the news or on message boards. Really! But I see sexism every day.
Er, those morons would have been walking home, if it had been my car.
Are you kidding? You really don’t see anything wrong with jokes about lynching? There is no good time or “right context” for any joke like that.
If people didn’t think these jokes had some truth, they wouldn’t think they’re funny. If you substituted white for black in the pizza joke, would anyone think it’s funny? No, because there’s no stereotype of white people being too lazy to support their families.
You have a crappy sense of humor. I bet you think Freddy Got Fingered is the funniest movie ever.
Also, there is no excuse for that sort of thing. The people in this thread making excuses and justifications for why it’s okay are simply making excuses. Sharp condemnation will get the point across very quickly that that crap is harmful to people and not to be tolerated.
Some here might be confused as to my reaction to this thread versu my reaction to the Ferrero(sp?) thread. Racist jokes are bigotry in action, the other was simply discussing social trends.
I can understand the point of view that such jokes are always inappropriate, but I can’t entirely condemn something that manages to give heart wrenching topics, in a certain context, a bit of levity.
Maybe it is wrong, I don’t really know. All I know is that personally, I can’t think, speak, hear, or read about the Holocaust/lynching/any human atrocity or tragedy without tearing up, and yet when told by a source that I know fully recognizes the horror and overwhelming sadness of it, I do find such jokes funny. Humans are capable of such wonderful and terrible and ingenious and mind-bogglingly stupid and admirable and ridiculous things that if I can’t find some humor in it, even if it is only shock-value, ironic or juxtapositional humor, I don’t know how I’d get through the day. Sometimes, humor is the only coping strategy we have.
And of course, sometimes such jokes are just plain offensive and sickening. I find that the difference between the two is all about context and intent.
Finally, Ensign Edison, I’m so sorry about your mom, and I’m sorry you had to spend so much time with people whose jokes felt inappropriate and offensive to you. Don’t beat yourself up for not taking them to task for it. I think what you said was just fine, especially considering that you were facing several more hours in close quarters with them.
If the situation comes up again, I’d recommend simply stating, in a regular, neutral tone of voice, that these jokes make you uncomfortable, and you’d prefer a change in topic. If they lay into you for it, just say that you’re not judging or being critical of them for it (even if you really are) and don’t want to have an argument about it, it’s just that, again, that kind of joking makes you uncomfortable. In other words, make it about the jokes, not the people telling them, and try not to get too defensive or critical about it, since the goal is to get them to stop telling those jokes around you (or at the very least to express your feelings on the subject so that you don’t feel you’re demonstrating agreement and approval by your silence) but not at the expense of preserving an amiable atmosphere (which is a perfectly acceptable middle ground to take, IMHO).
I can see how in the right context, with the right people, such jokes could be used for some kind of shock humor at their absurdity, but it’s the casual use of the word “nigger” that makes it extremely offensive and less like a joke. Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I’ve never heard anyone in my everyday life (aside from crazies on the subway) use that word to refer to someone.
In my view it’s more like, “If people didn’t recognize that, appallingly, at some point in time or in the minds of certain people it was/is considered truth, there wouldn’t be any need to acknowledge and be able to laugh about it.” It depends on context because that’s what makes it either making fun of the people who are the butt of the joke (meaning, making the joke racist and bigoted), or being able to be horrified and saddened by something and *still *being able to see humor in it. It is a peculiar kind of humor that not everyone shares, and I’m probably not explaining it well. In particular, there’s kind of a need it fulfills that I’m not really able to articulate other than to say, as I did in my earlier post, that it’s something of a coping strategy. Like when people say ‘laughing to keep from crying’. Life can be awful, and the more humor you can find in it, the easier it is to bear.
Some of us think we can tell the difference between jokes and sincerity. In this situation, there is no harm if there is no sincerity.
Yeah, they were being jerks even if ignore the nature of the jokes. Joking around when two of the people in the car just lost their mother…that’s just trifling behavior.
I agree with Eyesbrows of Doom. I’m not in the camp that thinks ethnic jokes can never be funny, but “nigger jokes” are a different matter. There’s just something about that word that is un-funny.
Ensign, the next time you chat with your sister, I’d say something like, “What was up with your friends the other day?” Unless it was your sister who had initiated the joke-telling, maybe she was feeling the exact way you were, but didn’t want to cause a scene. If not, then you’ll have the opportunity to cuss her out.