Ties with our allies are stronger than ever, he denuclearized North Korea with a handshake, and NO RUSSIA COLLUSION. What’s not to like?
Doing a good job at what?
My taxes have gone down. So there’s that.
Yeah, that about the percentage of people that voted for him that don’t know what his job is.
Or they are happy with the treatment of minorities, and still believe his lies.
It is impossible to have a conversation when people write things like this:
- Trump insults our allies and starts trade wars while praising people like Putin.
- Diplomacy with North Korea is welcome but they are not “denuclearized” in any way, shape or form.
- Multiple Trump officials have admitted to lying about Russian contacts and some have even plead guilty to crimes. And Mueller’s investigation is not complete.
And then the post ends with, “What’s not to like?” As if it should be self-evident that (A) the three claims are true (they aren’t) and (B) Trump hasn’t done anything else to warrant criticism.
I came to this forum because I thought its reputation was to weed out the falsehoods and the drive-by snark. But to return to my point:
Would someone - anyone - please explain to me how I’m supposed to ‘have a conversation’ when the opposing side refuses to acknowledge any sort of objective reality? Because this is the situation we have found ourselves in. I’m absolutely fed up trying to ‘have a conversation’ with people who can’t even acknowledge the most basic and well-documented facts, and instead indulge in this fetishistic hero-worship devoid of any actual reason.
So please, Vinyl Turnip, explain:
- What leads you to believe our relationships with allies are strong when Trump has gutted the state department and antagonizes them at every turn?
- Please show me the IAEA report documenting the denuclearization of North Korea. South Africa has had such an investigation, because they ACTUALLY denuclearized instead of making nonspecific promises.
- Please explain why Trump’s administration and relatives lied about their contacts with Russia - even when those lies constituted a felony (as in the case of Trump Jr)
And again - anybody -
- Please explain how I am supposed to ‘have a conversation’ when the opponent has neither facts nor reason?
… pretty sure VT was being all ironical and shit…
*Awww! * You wrecked it! That could have been oodles of malicious fun!
Do I still need to answer the essay questions?
Yes. But be ironical about it.
It is, it is. As with any forum that’s been around for a number of years, some regular participants tend to post sarcasm that is taken as sarcasm by all the other regulars, but that looks sincere to newcomers. There’s not a heck of a lot of it, but it happens.
Please don’t give up on us because of it. (If in doubt, take a look at a few other posts by the person in question and you’ll be able to see their actual position on the issues.)
Well, that’s the problem we find ourselves in not only here with this board’s right-wing posters, but elsewhere on the internet, too, of course.
There can be satisfaction in challenging the bully-worshipers to provide evidence for their claims (they usually try to change the subject to avoid such calls). But a lot of the time, we just have to acknowledge that we’re not going to change the worshiper him-or-herself. Our posts might reach other readers, though. That’s worth doing.
Most people here value the project of communicating effectively using verifiable evidence, so we just …keep at it.
Hope you’ll stay with us.
(Oh, and also: Vinyl Turnip’s posts are always worth reading, even if you’re not fond of snark. <–Not sarcasm!)
But what has he accomplished that wouldn’t have been done better by any other GOP primary candidate? (Other than, possibly, Carson.) He made a mess of the Obamacare repeal and nearly torpedoed the tax cut. He’s moving away from free trade and started laying the groundwork for a painful trade war. He’s taken lying by a politician to an all new level and frustrated Republican efforts at immigration “reform”. He got absolutely nothing from North Korea other than giving Kim a bit more credibility. He’s had an embarrassing amount of staff turnover, hampering any efforts to get things done.
Almost everything he’s “accomplished” was either because of SCOTUS retirements or the GOP establishment. It’s like saying that a batter who’s 0-for-50 but has one hit-by-pitch is doing a good job. As I see it there are only two things Trump has done that wouldn’t have been done by a good politician: he’s been more aggressive with border control (leading to the bad optics of breaking up families and two losing court cases) and he’s willing to take pot shots at all politicians, including Republicans. Some people like that pugnacious attitude and maybe you’re one of them but he’s probably frittering away the GOP legislative advantage. We’ll know better after the mid-term elections.
My payroll taxes from my Sub-S company have dropped by a staggering $37 per semimonthly paycheck! 
Of course, my accountant has jacked up the amount I have to pay on distribution income in my quarterly estimates by several hundred dollars. 
So much winning…
Jesus, he has had his goons rip nursing babies from the breast of their mothers. He has put children into concentration camps. He is destroying alliances with nations that time and time again have fought and bled with us in our battles. He is sucking up to every dictator on the planet. He has exploded the deficit to the exclusive benefit of the donor class. He has put tariffs on our friends, not only antagonizing them but devastating the economy. Anyone who can witness all of this and still proclaim that he is doing a good job shows contempt for that Constitution that they pretend to adore.
I don’t know about that. It could be that the #walkaway movement is beginning to work! :eek:
That appears to be the main message being pushed by the Internet Research Agency (headquartered in St. Petersburg—Russia, of course, not Florida).
It’s an odd one. The idea that masses of Democrats are defecting to Trump appears to be one of the most delusional concepts Putin’s think tank (or whatever it is he uses) ever came up with.
Also, it’s sort of easy to ridicule on its face. Isn’t it the weak and ineffectual who “walk away” instead of standing up, rolling up their sleeves, confronting the issue, getting to work----or whatever other expression one might want to use? Why do right-wing people think others will want to identify with being weak and wimpy?
Ah, the mysteries of 21st century propaganda.
They believe their opponents ARE weak and wimpy and easy prey to doubt, so they will be easily demoralized and scatter the instant it looks like it’s gonna be harder than they thought or they’re not getting all they expect right away, or even some progress is undone.
The hard-Trumpers and hard-Righties (not exactly the same group), to their credit, have been known to be willing to tolerate some pain and fake a smile while being buggered, for the sake of winning.
OH! but his worshippers think he’s doing a good job. So he has that going for him.
Let’s not forget the VERY BIG probability of treason. Of course I suspect that will be whistled away. Nothing to see here…
I think most of Trump’s support is centered around his being a weapon against what they view of Secular Progressivism, Social Justice Warriors, Media, DC Elites, minority groups, and the whole idea of political correctness.
He’s done some things they like, such as cut taxes, nominated Gorsuch, defang the EPA, and repeal the ACA Individual mandate.
Even though there are persuasive arguments that he’s not a conservative (higher deficits, higher tariffs, higher ACA premium subsidies, numerous other things that were previously apostasies within the right), I don’t think that was ever the point with him.
He was a big middle finger to some huge all-powerful “Other” that they hate. The Other is destroying the country, and Trump has to stop them. He’s with “us” against The Other. He’s one of Us. I think that’s the key with his support.
So, when you think of it like that, the more he lies or the more he ignores the rule of law, they better his supporters like it, because the ends justify the means…in their view.
Trump support reminds me of Joe Paterno a few years back. He was found to ignore child rape but his fans did not care. Because he won a lot of FB games. Many PSU fans were not alive when he was hired to coach at Penn St . And when he got fired many fans got really mad, because they think a coach is only fired for 1 reason - losing. As long as the wins keep coming everything else is ignored, including crime.
Trump fans only care about winning , nothing else matters. Not winning FB games, but stuff like tax cuts, build the wall, supreme court , etc.