Why is it good for a state to be religious or why is it bad for a state to be religious?
It all depends on whether you’re an orthodox practicing member of the state religion or not.
Might work, really big might, if 100% of the population is that one religion. Otherwise, no.
The reasons for establishing a strict separation when the United States was founded was to prevent one religion from using the force of government to oppress or harass other religions, which had happened in recent history during and before the American Revolution, on both sides of the pond.
Many other countries eventually realized that a state-supported religion was pretty antithetical to the principals of liberal democracy, and either did away with them or substantially reduced their legal power (as in the UK, for instance.)
[ul]
[li]Because religion and the state bring out the worst in each other. Religion loses even the facade of being civilized since it doesn’t have to persuade people anymore, and the state becomes fanatics; utterly ruthless, malignant and insane.[/li][li]Because only people who think that their religion is the one that will be forced on everyone at gunpoint will get what they want, at best.[/li][li]Because religion is inherently destructive and corrupting and should never be given power (or exist for that matter)[/li][/ul]
Why is it bad? Frank Herbert said it best:
"*To really control a populace, you must combine religion and law. Make it against the law to commit a sin, and make it a sin to break the law. *
More than likely I just butchered that quote, but it’ll do to make my point. You don’t want any leading body to have to much power, as power corrupts. Once you have the two combined, you end up with witch trials, the Inquisition, the Crucades, honor killings, legalized rape, etc.
And worst of all-no liquor sales on Sundays.
In the US, they should absolutely be separate.
Politicians who wave their religion or religious mandates around are a total embarrassment to the Christian Church and they are a part of why the Christian Church has become a social club filled with hypocrisy.
The US is not a Christian county. We have plenty of other recognized religions and the citizens are free to practice any of them. IF someone wants a theocracy… then I say, lets base it on Hinduism for the first 50 years (see how you like giving up your hamburger because the state says you can’t eat cow. See how happy the beef industry is when their entire herd become unmarketable). Then for the next 50 years, lets try strict Catholic and have the population herded into confessionals once a week and no fish on Friday ever. Say, then we can try Wicca… won’t the Christians be happy to live for 50 years under Wicca rules?
I’m Christian and I absolutely hate what US Politics have done to the Church. Christ did not legislate morality and He didn’t teach us to legislate morality. The Church spends billions on their power aspirations instead of spending those dollars on supporting the people who they are supposed to be helping.
Any Pastor who wants to tell me to vote against a politician based on abortion had better be able to show me around their fully funded facility that they’ve built to provide unwed mothers with a home, education and assistance for her entire brood through the first year of the unborn child’s life. Until they provide solutions to the problem, they have no right to try to regulate legal procedures and take away the rights of people who do not hold the same belief as they do.
Until the Church lobbies to abolish all divorce, they have no right to but their noses into marriage between non-Christian people who do not share their belief based on “saving the family”. Divorce affects FAR MORE children than homosexuals could ever hope to affect. If they want to save the children, then lets start with the children of the members of the Church first before we worry about the rest of the population.
Any Church that allows the words “Republican” or “Democrat” to be uttered inside their walls should have to pay full taxes like every other business. Once they pay full taxes on all of their income, then I’ll listen to their views on politics. If they believe that God wants them in politics, then God will provide them with enough money to cover the taxes too.
People seem to be confusing the concepts of a state church and a government which legislates based on religious morality. The UK has the first but (in general) not the second, while the US has the second but not the first.
That must be why our politics and society here in the UK are so deeply infected with religious extremism, whereas that is not the case in the USA at all, of course.
Religions tend to look at people outside their religion as either heathen scum or potential converts.
If religion is too closely tied to the state it suffers the same level of cynicism as the state does, and thus loses credibility. European nations with state churches have seemed to become far less religious than we are. So Jefferson and Madison were, as usual, correct.
In Germany they have prayer in schools and high levels of atheism. These may be connected.
Here’s a case study on the effects of intertwining religion and the state.
I suggest you look to the history of the UK for what the effects of mixing the two are. Naturally, there aren’t many effects of mixing the two now, when few people take it seriously; but it took an awful lot of blood and oppression to burn out people’s faith in Europe.
Don’t crow until you permit a Catholic to become monarch.
What happens to the man or woman who chooses to not belong to the state’s chosen religion?
Have we learned nothing from the Holocaust and the Inquisition?
My main problem with the mixture of religion and government can be seen with the recent wave of bills to legislate access to birth control and remove access to Planned Parenthood also making it much harder to get an abortion.
I don’t fuck in your church and you can leave your religion out of the pharmacy and away from the doctor’s office. I am tired of all the crap I have heard these past two years from the GOP about women like they know shit about anything.
My take on Religion and on Government is that they are both ways for clever people to manipulate, subjugate, and ultimately control a populace. It appears that these dominant types have decided that Government is a bit more efficient at ruling the Hoi Polloi, so more modern countries gradually phase Religion out of their repertoire. Some more Medieval societies are still being ruled by a combination of Religion and Government.
Whether the Founding Fathers wisely segregated Government from Religion, or whether the Illuminati decided their new Government would work better without the distraction of several Religions clamoring for power, is a matter for debate.
Religion is the opiate of the masses. Government is the … ?
Methadone.
Makes you wonder if letting theocracies happen is the surest way of making religion irrelevant…eventually.
Yeah, I’ve heard that speculation before. Even if it works in the long run it’s not much fun in the interim though.