Forgive me for being marginal, but Jews have been a very persecuted group throughout Western and Middle Eastern history. Yet they’ve managed to survive the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and various pogroms and the like. However, increased secularism (not that it is a bad thing) and intermarrying is supposedly destroying the Jewish identity. Why should they continue to survive as a distinct group?
Why not?
I’m missing the debate, here. Are you arguing that
-
they have finally met a force (secularism) that will tear apart 2,500 years of traditional coherence?
-
they should dissolve, as secularism is a new, better model for humanity?
-
they need to be protected from secularism?
or
- something else?
What makes the OP a great Debate? (Or is this simply a question, placed in GD because religious topics tend to migrate here? In which case I am still unsure what question is being asked.)
How about they should survive as a distinct group because they, as a group, have done nothing to deserve the seemingly endless persocution they face. That one work for ya?
- sorry if that sounds a mean, but I don’t see why a group shouldn’t continue as a distinct groupo because they’ve faced persocution. How is that a crime that they should be punished for?
**Jamie
I have to wonder that if Jews found their numbers plumitting, they might rethink the whole idea of not trying to recruit new members. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Jews should survive for the same reason any other historical group should survive. They are people. That is good enough for anyone who has a heart.
Why should they or how can they?
I’m a little confused by the OP as well. Is there an organization or movement to enact governmental or financial policies aimed at promoting Jewish survival? Or is this in reference to Israel being a Jewish state as opposed to a secular one?
However, it’s not uncommon for a group of people to want their traditions to survive and to use governmental policy to encourage it. Quebec’s stance on the French language comes to mind, as well as frequent disputes in India over language, as well as many countries’ attempts to limit American cultural influence by restricting media. The US has groups who want to restrict immigration, and one of the reasons (of possibly many, and I’m saying of possibly many here so as not to start an immigration debate in this thread) is that the traditional American culture is disappearing. Why should Jews be any different than anyone else in this matter?
And if this clock keeps ticking away, will time be hesitated? Sorry, nothing else to add.
And the worst part is there’s nothing we can do. We’ve tried capturing breeding pairs but it turns out Jews don’t mate in captivity.
Intermarrying is destroying the identity of every race (which BTW, I think is a good thing). What’s your point?
I assume he is talking about the fact that secular Jews, who may in fact be atheists, still may choose to feel Jewish and enjoy aspects of Jewish community that include religious events. It would be like having communion for families whose ancestors were Catholics.
If the question is why should Jews survive, I think I should describe it thus: Multiculturalism is a good thing, in that understanding and embracing all cultures enriches all humanity. But I see multiculturalism as a kind of anthology of cultures. A collection of stories, like a collection of cultures, is valuable in and of itself. But when one of the stories is excised, the anthology becomes less than it was. If any culture disappears, humanity becomes less than it was. No active culture should be allowed to die, and no already dead one (I’m thinking of ancient and long departed cultures) should be “out of print.” Simplistic, I suppose, but that’s my opinion.
Because we don’t want to be killed, thank you very much.
Zev Steinhardt
I think he’s referring to Jews as a culture, not individuals, Zev.
Nevertheless, point well taken.
The problem here appears to be that trying to define a “Jew” without reference to Israel or Judaism is as difficult as defining who is “white”. Neither word stands up particularly well to the inescapable biological fact that everyone is a mongrol and there’s no such thing as “pure” (or indeed “race” unless there are literally thousands of such races in a single country).
Of course, if we’re talking about filling Israel with followers of Judaism no matter what they look like (eg. Samuel L. Jackson: “Shalom, brother”) then one can hardly call this “continuing the Jewish race”.
I know. I meant to preface my comment with a recap of just the thread title. By forgetting to do so, I ruined my entire joke. My inclusion of a smiley was meant to indicate that my answer was sort of tongue-in-cheek.
Zev Steinhardt
Will someone please tell this to my mom, grandparents, and all the other well-meaning Jewish relatives who keep trying to fix me up with nice Jewish boys with whom I have absolutely nothing else in common?
I think the OP needs to clarify what is meant by “Jews” and what is meant by “should.” He may be asking something more akin to “How can Jews survive” (as a distinct culture) and just phrasing it poorly.
SentientMeat, you do know there are Ethiopian Jews, right?
Many of whom left to settle in Israel.