We do not learn very fast. We fight against countries that have no navies or air forces at all. We have all the advantages of superior weaponry and control of the skies. Then we come home with nothing but a legacy of dead soldiers and busted budgets. When will we ever learn? People who are fighting to protect their homeland fight very hard and have no place to go. We will have to leave again. Better sooner than later.
Sadly, that’s a big part of it, I think.
As for ObL, I think we’re better off with him out there but ineffective than we would be if we captured him or killed him. Either of those last two alternatives would likely trigger some severe reprisals-- capturing random Westerners and beheading them. If we capture him, I can see a hijack situation where kidnapped individuals are executed every X number of days until ObL is released.
He’s just one guy, and if he’s gone, another leader will emerge. There seems to be no lack of new recruits at all levels.
Afghanistan has shown itself to be a breeding ground for extremist governments that have no problems harboring and supporting world-wide terrorists. We are attempting to over-see a switch to a democratic government that will not support terrorist activities.
What legal authority do we have to dictate what form of government is used by a sovereign nation? They need to understand that if they piss us off, we can and will darken the skies with our bombers, yadda yadda…but otherwise, it’s their country, they get to run it as they see fit. That includes having a form of government we don’t like.
Yeah. And besides, what’s to say they keep that government once we leave? Afghanistan has never been governed centrally, and I don’t know how we can change that. We’ll need to be there forever if our goal is to ensure a certain type of government.
I can not believe that is really what you think we are doing there. Afghanistan is a country of competing warlords. They have little fiefdoms and fight each other endlessly. How do you think we can develop a national government let alone a democracy which is something of which they have no background. Their future includes religious wars, political wars and drug production. It is a mess.
The United States of America has militarily intervened in Afghanistan in order to first of all to stop Al-Qaeda from having a permanent training ground from which to attack the United States of America and also to overthrow the Taliban regime and establish a stable secular democracy in the region.
Well, that might have been what we went in for, but the question is why are we still there? Especially since there is little reason to believe that there will be anything remotely similar to a “secular democracy” once we leave (if there is even much chance of one being there before we leave).
And we were foolish if we only wanted to secure Afghanistan against al Qaeda, since they operate freely in Pakistan.
The “legal” authority comes from the fact that we defeated them, like we did with Germany and Japan. I think bombing and then leaving just sets the stage for having to do it again.
You believe that ,do you? Thats a good boy. Someone has to believe the crap they feed us.
Really? You’d think a thing like that would make the news. Would you be kind enough to notify the folks over at the DoD? They seem to think We need 14,000 more “trigger pullers” over there.
I suppose that could be security for the victory party, though…
You didn’t ask if the current policy is working, you asked why we are still there. In my view the Taliban government was defeated by American-led forces which gave us authority to attempt to install a better government. (Bush then stupidly took his attention elsewhere but that’s an argument for a different thread.) Progress is not going as well as we’d like it and Obama is sending in more troops.
How are we dictating anything? The UN sponsored the Bonn agreement, which set up an interim Afghan government. The Bonn agreement was later incorporated into UN Security Council Resolution 1383 and following Security Council resolutions set up ISAF (International Security Assistance Force), which is mostly the non-offensive arm of the NATO military presence there. The Afghans themselves, following the interim government, set up the loya jirga which decided on the current form of government.
Its principal export is heroin.
Do you think that’s the kind of occupation you can just give up cold turkey?! Do you think it’s easy?! :mad:
Deeg set the basics down when he said “we defeated them.” Camus has the specifics down. I just wanted to add the general requirements set out of the Geneva (and to a lesser extent the Hague Conventions) governing Belligerent Occupation of a Territory. We can’t tell them what kind of government to have, and we have not.
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Occupation starts when we penetrate into Afghanistan and exerted control over it. Thus, the conventions “kick in”. It ends when we leave or it becomes a “peaceful occupation” (i.e., Afghan requests our presence).
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While occupied, the US must try and mantain the status quo, if possible (the territory does not belong to us). With the exception of providing for our own security, local law remains in force. We have the power to enforce local law. However, if local law is oppressive, we may change it. We have the power to ensure proper health, food, hygiene, ect. (law or no law). Lastly, we can adopt rules/laws to ensure the saftey of ourselves. In doing so, we can set up tribunals to enforce these new security regulations. The tribunals can also enforce any war crimes.
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We must respect the human rights of the population.
Well we want to establish a nation state better then the Taliban which is basically anything by now. And Pakistanis too are launching a drive against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in their nation.
Pakistani involvement is going to be the key to this issue, I think. It’s good to hear reports that Pakistan is trying to exert central government control over it’s own territories that it traditionally ignored and left to the Pashtuns.
I am pretty uncertain how effective any government that is perceived by the populace as “set up by the USA” is going to be unless we help with immensely expensive issues like infrastructure and clean water.
The thing is a mess, true, but is a much more worthy exercise of our military than Iraq ever was.
True, however we do help the Afghans with infrastructure and clean water.
Oh, I’m sure we do some of that already. I suppose I meant to ask how extensive that help is, or is it isolated to a few urban areas? How much does it help the average Afghani?
It’s quite extensive but both government funding and private charities.