I’m posting here in hopes of getting a serious set of responses. I have great reverence and appreciation of the veterans of WWII, who clearly stepped up to help save the world from Hitler and possibly from Japan. They volunteered and threw themselves into an unknown, and god knows where we’d all be without them. Vietnam - many of the soldiers who went there were drafted. They didn’t have any choice and they fought because that was pretty much their only choice.
Afghanistan in the last 5-10 years? Is there anyone who thinks that the guys fighting there have a clear picture of what they’re there for? In fact, do any Americans? I don’t. I don’t think many of them even believe they are protecting America. I think many of them are there because they want to be seen as “fighting men and women” and potential heroes.
I anticipate being vilified here by suggesting that honoring today’s returning veterans is without purpose. But I think it’s empty rhetoric. I don’t begin to understand the fervor and the sacred sense that accompanies the reverence for these guys. And I’m sorry as hell that they get little support from their government when they come home all busted up physically as well as emotionally. But they volunteered for a job that didn’t need doing, that no one understands, that doesn’t protect America from anything, that is pretty much playing Army in a pretend war against an unnamed and unidentifiable enemy. What is the “service” everyone is thanking them for? I don’t thank them. As far as I’m concerned, they aren’t doing anything for me. Or my country, for that matter. And many of the Afghans agree.
Good thing you don’t live in San Antonio, else you’d go crazy with all the “honor our vets” stuff around here.
The “thanks” is for volunteering to put their lives on the line. If their service was irrelevant, in your eyes, that’s not the troops’s fault… it’s their political leaders.
So, thank the guys who put their asses on the line, and save the bitching about why their asses were on the line for your Congresscritter.
Joining the military, whether in times of peace or war, is an act of service to the country. Literally. Those folks do dangerous work, for low pay, in challenging conditions even in peacetime, and even in areas that are not combat zones during wars. It’s not that they protect us from any particular threat in Afghansitan, it’s that they stand ready to go where they’re ordered to execute our foreign policy, often at great personal cost.
OP, if you’d ever served, you’d understand. If someone close to you serves one day, you may understand. Otherwise, you probably will continue to just not get it. And that’s ok. Other people will answer the call, just as they always have.
And yes, I served. USAF 1988-1992.
And can you say what, exactly, that service is? If you don’t know why you’re going, and they don’t either, but someone tells you that you should put your life on the line, you should just do it??? Sorry. Don’t buy it.
The OP should note this does not describe all vets or those close to them by a long shot.
Then don’t join? No need to get upset about it - nobody is asking you to go to Afghanistan.
Why do you think that? Without getting into a convoluted foreign policy argument, I find that whenever someone starts an argument like this - by making assumptions about the motives of people they disagree with - they’re always wrong.
Because they volunteer to join an organization whose reason for being is to defend our Nation. You can criticize the Civilian politicians who use our military unwisely but that does not change the fact that the people carrying out those orders risk their lives and deserve to be thanked.
Not everyone ‘buys’ patriotism; that’s fine. You’ll simply be one of the many people who go about their lives thinking the only actions that affect them are their own. They don’t acknowledge the actions of people they don’t see or have tangible proof of. Just as the President is the President of ALL the States, not just those he carried, the people in the military serve all the US and all Americans, not just those who acknowledge value in that service.
Enjoy your bubble of ignorance. I’ll be over here, thanking the people who at least tried to improve the state of the US.
If people don’t sign up then there will be a draft and I thank whoever steps up so other people don’t have to.
Also there could be a war that “matters” any minute. One could come to our front doors. Even though these kids are busy getting freaked out in Afghanistan they are also the ones who signed up to be the ones fighting if something goes down closer to home. It still isn’t going to be me doing anything heroic in this situation, it’ll be them. They are the ones who said “you know, if something goes down, I’m willing to literally fight to fix it.”
That’s pretty dang honorable.
The service is performing a designated role in the military, whether that be cook, clerk, combat, etc. It’s performing necessary work to allow the organization to fulfill its mission. If you have problems with the mission, talk to the elected civilians that define same.
So you’re going to wait to make sure the specific principles justifying responding to an attack are in line with your personal sensitivities before you are willing to join. That means after being accepted, processed, trained in a multitude of disciplines and being deemed ready to deploy you’ll be ready about a year or so after you were urgently needed.
When you’re a vet, you’re a vet all the way;
From the first day you sign, till your last dying day.
When you’re a vet, you can sit on your can;
You’ve got PTSD from your time in the 'Nam.
You’re never alone: you’re always hearing voices (dum-dum);
You’re jumpy at home: you don’t like louder noises (dumdumdum).
Please continue with further verses, as you like, and with apologies to Lenny and Stephen.
My generation, born during the Vietnam War, was raised with horrible stories of soldiers returning from war to be spat on, called rapists and baby killers, not getting the medical care they needed and turning to alcohol and drugs because they couldn’t get jobs or assimilate into civilian life (only once I got to college did I learn that some of these things probably didn’t actually happen). We knew that treating them poorly was wrong, and we’ve tried very hard not to let that happen to today’s service members.
Have we maybe gone a little too far in the lionization? Maybe. We’ve heard from veterans and active duty folks here that people literally coming up and saying, “thank you for your service” is embarrassing and awkward, so I no longer do that. But honestly, I’d rather err on the side of over gratitude than risk hurting or shaming them as a group. (There are individual veterans I *would *like to spit on, frankly, as they are just horrible human beings. But that has nothing to do with their being veterans, except that finding a job that allowed them to kill people was right up their sick twisted alley.)
But the point is, I think some of the current trend for thanks is a culture wide attempt to avoid treating them like we did the Vietnam vets.
Why the thanks for today’s returning vets? Because you can’t thank the ones that didn’t return. And that is sad.
…I watched this again last night, and while not really relevant to the thread, just thought I’d share it again. It is a powerful display of raw grief and emotion: and as compelling as the haka is to watch, the moment that always gets me is the sudden fade to silence.
I’ve never served, and I’ve also never said “thanks”, its not really the way we do things down here. But they will always have my respect.
Because it’s “Thank you Mr Atkins” when the band begins to play.
Because America is a society that has strong militaristic leanings, and venerates the military and soldiers regardless of what they do or don’t do.
There have to have been at least a dozen threads in the last couple of years bemoaning allegedly excessive respect paid to members of the military.
I sympathize with the OP though. That kind of thing spoils Veterans Day for everyone else.
Moved MPSIMS --> IMHO.