This could easily degenerate into a Pit thread or turn into a GD, but I’m really after an explanation for a phenomenon I simply don’t understand, so I’m putting it in GQ.
I understand the fundamental uses of profanity: shock and emphasis. I think it has lost both of late. People who seem unable to put together a coherent sentence without one or more of George Carlin’s seven words you can’t say on television are adding neither shock nor emphasis. I worked with a fellow who swore maybe once a year. When he did, you shut up and listened to him. It worked.
There are quite a few posters here who sprinkle things with profanity (Pit or no Pit) which adds little or nothing to their posts. In most circumstances, I’d simply dismiss them as idiots with insufficient vocabulary, but they appear to be smart people, so there must be more to it.
I’m a laid-back kinda guy, and I generally find it easy to avoid offending people (unless it’s my intention to offend them). I know that my black friends will be offended if I use the word “nigger,” so I don’t use it. The Crow Indian woman I used to work with told me most Indians are offended by the word “squaw,” so I don’t use it. For the most part, Dopers seem to agree with the philosophy that politeness matters. So why use the word “fuck” when it’s offensive to far more people than “squaw” or “nigger,” and arguably even less socially acceptable? Does “What the fuck are you talking about?” really convey what you’re feeling so much better than “What’s that inane drivel coming out of your mouth?” or “You’re making absolutely no sense,” or simply “That’s the most moronic thing I’ve ever heard”?
The question was prompted by reading this Great Debates thread, which included the following two quotes that stood out like a plate of manure in a fancy restaurant:
Here’s two intelligent people in a forum where profanity is discouraged (I know, I’m using it in GQ right now, but that’s different) who are using two of George C’s words unnecessarily. Why? Is it because they don’t consider them offensive and don’t realize that other people do? Is it because they’re trying to be offensive to the particular person they’re responding to and don’t care about anyone else reading the thread? Is it because they couldn’t think of another way to phrase what they’re saying (they don’t seem to be vocabulary-impaired)? Is it because politeness just doesn’t matter anymore?
So, to clarify the question: what purpose does profanity serve in general conversation?
With my gaming friends I am known for being a “straight shooter” and always saying what’s on my mind, sensibilities be, errr, damned.
But I’m not it’s just that I am fairly straightforward compared to other people who use my same level of non-profanity. So it shocks people to hear blatant getting-to-the-point-ism coming from such a “strait-laced” person.
These days I guess it seems not using profanity is more shocking!
But seriously, while you’re going to have to ask the posters you quoted why they used the words they use, I’m assuming it was, like you had mentioned, for emphasis. Saying
“That said, you always have to wonder if they really do believe such obvious horseshit.”
does seem a more emphatic way of expressing the poster’s disgust for the views than something like:
“That said, you always have to wonder if they really do believe such obvious falsehoods”
And of course, like you said, some people don’t find profanity offensive or use it often enough it’s become habitual.
“Profanity” is used for any of a number of reasons:
As an intensifier, to show that one has strong feelings about the subject
To shock
To offend
For humorous effect
For color or vividness
Automatically, without even thinking that one is doing it (particularly if one spends a lot of time around people who talk this way)
As a way of showing that one is part of the group or subculture, or wants to be accepted, by using the sort of language that is acceptable by that group
As a sort of rebellion against authority or propriety
“Bad words” are simply words. I use them like any other words, depending on my audience. Sometimes they are used for emphasis, sometimes for shock, sometimes because a certain phrase is the exact thing I’m trying to get across. The same reason that I use profanity is the same reason that I use any word – it’s the right word at the right time.
I generally don’t use profanity around people who are offended by profanity (although I don’t really like to hang out with such people), however. It’s like using certain speech patterns. I was raised in a pretty poor area and picked up a “lower class” speech pattern (the use of “ain’t,” “he don’t,” etc.). I don’t use that speech pattern in my business dealings, but around my wife or friends, I do. The same with profanity. It’s simply part of a speech pattern that different people will use at different times.
An old roommate and longtime friend of mine just had a habit of saying GD this, GD that, this GD thing, etc. We got used to it as just Brent being Brent but I did have to laugh out loud when a Judge (Brent’s a Criminal Attorney) told him "Son, your points are vail but try and restrain yourself from using GD to describe every thing, person and action in my court in every singe sentence.
Brent’s one of the most considerate, intelligent guys you’ll ever meet. He really was no longer even realizing he was being profane. It’s just like the people who sprinkle sentences with waaay too many, ummmmms and you knows.
I do think the N-word is a worse insult than “fuck” can ever be.
You seem to be under the impression that words have a fixed value, but that is of course not true. Meanings change and and when the word fuck loses its negative connotation and joins rank with gosh and darn, there will be a new word in place of fuck, that people will condemn.
Different cultures also place different values on words. The Spanish will gladly use ‘coño’ (‘cunt’) about the same way an American would say ‘crap’. It’s a mild to medium profanity there.
As for people who inject ‘fuck’ in every sentence, well, the problem isn’t caused by the profanity, but the lack of vocabulary.
BTW, there’s a great scene in HBO’s The Wire, which shows how versatile the word fuck is. Someone put it on youtube, but I’m disabling the link since it’s oh, so NOT SAFE FOR WORK. Contains nudity (crime scene photos) and 3+ minutes of Bunk and McNulty saying fuck.
I’ve seen a bunch of those “look how many different parts of speech ‘fuck’ can be” write-ups. I think what’s actually happened is that it’s become semantically void. It adds as much to the meaning of a sentence as “um” or “er.” Since “um” can be inserted anywhere, I suppose it’s versatile, too.
Ultimately I think it is a deficit in ones own ability to maintain intelligent thought.
“Slop” is common and can be entertaining sometimes… Swagger and/or void of complex thinking is popular too… G. Bush is like that. Great role model… The cowboy simplicity of profanity also allows a “known to be” intelligent person the latitude to be simple minded from time to time. Is it intellectual “resting?” hahaha or just lazy?
In a chat environment such as this maybe it’s a form of setting expectations lower so one can occasionally be sloppy, absurd, lazy or even inaccurate with less accountability. It’s like a “ego buffer.”
ahhh f_ _k it…I don’t know… it’s probably all the above and many others…
Let me get this straight - are you saying that a person that sprinkles a lot of profanity in sentence do that because they can’t think long sentences, and vocalizing them, without injecting profanity, or that the ratio of profanity is inversly realted to intelligence, i.e. the more one swears, the stupider one is?
If you really don’y know anyone who talks like that, maybe you need to get out more. I talk like that and I’m a literate, college educated 40 year-old man. Profanity has a satisfying, cathartic effect on me. I really don’t care if other people are offended. I see that as their hangup, not mine.
My use of profanity goes in cycles. I first started using it in junior high, the first time in my life I could get away with it. This was when I was alone with my friends, with no adults in sight. I must have picked it up from my dad, who is quite profane, despite his perfect score on the SAT verbal portion and his PhD. (Several posters in this thread should be astonished at this point, as they think profanity goes hand in hand with a poor vocabulary and/or stupidity).
Then I made a point of not using profanity, and I couldn’t tell you when it crept back into my vocabulary. I’m guessing when I was married to my ex-husband. Now I still use it when I’m mad and that probably puzzles my PhD-wielding cubicle mate, as I also have a bigger vocabulary than anyone else in the office. Oh yeah, and I’m fluent in two foreign languages.
Interesting point: I have no interest in learning profanity in other languages.
Why? Should I also go out looking for teenagers who say “like” after every third word? How about white kids that use black street slang? Should I get out more so I can meet people who actually use “pwned” in spoken sentences? I’m not offended by words like “fuck,” I’m simply annoyed by them, and see no reason to seek out people who use them.
Thank you. You’ve given me two answers to the OP: “Swearing can be cathartic,” and “I don’t care if I offend people.”
The first one, I understand. It actually does feel good to use strong language after smashing one’s thumb with a hammer. I fail to understand its application to casual conversation, but that’s another issue.
The first one, I understand, too, although I feel it’s a pretty callous way of looking at the world. Do you also say “nigger” around black people? If not, why are you careful about offending them but not churchgoing little old ladies?
My point wasn’t that you’re missing anything but that you were wrong in your implication that real people don’t actually talk that way.
racial epithets are intended to inflame and insult. They are attacks on another person. Undirected profanity is not. Saying “It’s fucking cold as balls outside” is not comparable to calling someone a “nigger,” or even to calling them an “idiot.” The former statement has not insulted anybody.
Usually my use of profanity is as an emphatic. Sometimes, it can be a desire to offend (if you don’t think profanity has any shock value, try using the word “cunt” in the vindictive sense–at least in the US.) I am careful not to use the word around people who are offended by it. I will not purposely swear around children, for instance, and would not do so in polite company. Left to my natural speech patterns, though, I swear regularly and consider myself both polite and very much literate. Like I said, usually I use profanity as an emphatic. Sometimes, it’s just a filler word. I don’t need to swear and won’t, but my natural inclination includes profanity in my speech.
Eclipse <out>