You know the current environment here, and why people might see things that way! People aren’t just going to give a pass, and it’s going to take effort from both sides as well as time for things to heal. But most of all, I think there does need to be more conversation/consultation between moderators of different forums, since they are part of a whole! You admit you can see why people would be confused, and it is still fresh, yet you want them to just move along? :dubious: Give a break, get a break! Next time, instead of stiffening up and getting defensive right away, try sounding people out to see where they got the ideas they have and at least not minimizing them. If you have some small clue where they got the ideas, SAY SO, even if you explain that you don’t agree. Look them in the eye, not down at the top of their heads!
It broke no rules and came nowhere near breaking any kind of rule, so yes, it’s allowed. Bob Ducca made a statement and Czarcasm asked him a question in response. If you or Fenris have a personal problem with Czarcasm, Pit him. We already have a thread where people are complaining that Czarcasm junior moderates, and you could bump that but I’ll just say the same thing I am saying here. I’d like to keep this thread on topic, so I hope that’s the last I’m going to hear about this in this thread.
Did Fenris’s question break any rules or come close to breaking any rules?
What rule did fenris’s question break or come close to breaking?
It was indicative of an issue with Czarcasm since it was basically yet another accusation of junior modding. This is not the right venue for that.
I’m going to take “the current environment” to mean “it’s Thursday.”
This is a large board with a lot of opinionated posters. At any given moment there are always a few people who are unhappy with one decision or another, just as there are people who think we’re in the middle of some kind of major crisis or breach between the staff and the rest of the posters. The reality is that there’s no big crisis. It’s just another day here, and there’s nothing specific going on right now that prevents people from understanding why the IMHO thread was closed or these Pit threads merged or agreeing to disagree. I agree there could have been some more communication between the mods and maybe some of the posters (mostly RedFury) might feel they wasted their effort in the new thread. I get that they might disagree with the merge, but there was nothing improper or unusual about it and in turn there’s nothing wrong with Miller sticking by his decision (or my confirming that I think Miller was right). And some other posters may continue to disagree with that decision regardless, but that’s life; we’re both explaining our positions on the way these threads were moderated.
That makes perfect sense. I can’t imagine how anyone would get the idea that Czarcasm enjoys protected status around here.
Take it to the Pit or another thread.
– bolding mine
Decision has been made and while I strongly disagree with the pretzel logic used, so be it. Not “worked up” at all, BTW.
I do want to add one last thing to the bolded sentence above. In the attempt to comunicate you speak of, not only did I follow the original moderator’s instructions, but I also PM’d Gfactor the following message prior to doing anything:
As of now, no response. But to further the point, if there was any “lack of communication” it certainly wasn’t on my end for lack of trying.
And a further nitpick. Miller wrote the following:
– bolding mine.
I then took the time to break down my posting to that thread and responded:
So I proved his claim was wrong…and was ignored.
Not posting out of pettiness but rather showing just how hard it is for any of you to admit a mistake and/or make a retraction – small as it maybe. Simply a matter of common courtesy.
IMHO that’s the problem with ATMB: sheeple & overlords. Whether that’s a personal perception or more widely held, I can’t say – but it sure seems that way to me.
That’s all.
When, exactly, did you send that PM to Gfactor? He forwarded it to me to get my take on the request at five o’clock yesterday (PST), but at that point, you’d already gone ahead and posted your thread three hours earlier. Enderw24 had his IMHO poll closed at noon the same day - would I be wrong in assuming that you sent your PM after the IMHO thread was shut down?
I was mistaken as to the nature of your posts in that thread, and I retract my assumption that you had insulted SA in them.
While I’m on the subject, here’s a post I made yesterday where I admitted that I’d misread a post. Here’s one from earlier this year where I admitted to totally botching a quote that reversed the meaning of the material I was quoting. Here’s another one from last year where, while I stood by my decision as a moderator, I admitted that my mod note was badly written, and should have been clearer. Here’s one from the same year where take the blame for letting a fairly serious rule infraction go unmoderated for more than a day. Here’s a post from two years ago where I concede that the language I’d been using when cautioning people about Pit language rules was unclear. And here’s a post from the same time period where I flat-out fucked up on a moderation call, and completely rescinded it.
Lest anyone think I’m cherry picking my examples, here are the threads where I was specifically called out on my moderation, and did not retract or modify my position:
Why is Miller allowed to be a moderator here? - Amusingly enough, posted by Starving Artist in response to a ruling I made in the Paterno thread.
Moderator Name Calling In Regards to Members - in regards to posts made by myself and Marley as posters, in the Pit.
I take umbrage with both this warning and the mod attitude - where a poster questions my implementation of the “no wishing harm on another poster” rule.
I think that’s fairly comprehensive, although I might have missed some threads - I left out requests for clarifications or explanations of the rules that did not involve an argument that I was incorrectly or improperly interpreting them.
I am not holding my breath on apologies from the posters who have accused me, directly or by implication, of being unwilling to admit to error.
Do you mind if I ask “So what?” He said you probably insulted Starving Artist 46 times, you say it’s a lower number based on the thread merge and some differences in counting. Assuming Miller is incorrect, while we should all strive to be scrupulously accurate, does it make some sort of difference in the broader issue? I don’t think it does in this case.
Good thing RedFury wasn’t holding a breath waiting for you to apologize either…since you didn’t.
You realize you didn’t, right? Noting you were wrong is not the same as apologizing for being wrong.
He didn’t ask for an apology, he asked for an admission of error and a retraction. If he wants an apology on top of that, though, he’s welcome to one.
If you want to be pedantic, fine. He didn’t actually ask for any of those things, he stated that it was an example of how difficult it is for anyone in any position of power around here to admit those things.
And it was.
And it remains.
It is a tough thing to admit you are wrong and apologize for it when you **aren’t **wrong, I’ll give you that.
You know what was a lot easier to read? RedFury’s poll thread.
Hate to admit it, but this is a good point. Is there any doubt that any rational person would not conclude that SA’s “claim was wrong”? The poll results were a foregone conclusion.
I try to steer clear of mod criticism threads because I would never want to criticize someone who was volunteering to do a job that you could not pay me *enough *to do. That said, however, Miller-who is an excellent mod- made a bad call.
I chalk it up to temporary insanity. If it was my job to read SA’s maniacal ravings, I’d want to confine that pathogen to one finite area, which I would enter only after donning Level A hazmat gear.
RedFury, you’ve missed the point.
The real reason that your thread was merged is that you personally have been assimilated.
All threads on the dope will merge into that that one thread. It will become a black hole from which no post can escape.
We should shut that thread down now to save the universe.
Sorry. Here’s my belated response: Your question was mooted by the fact that you’d already started that thread by the time I read the PM. Were the question not mooted, I would have said that I wanted to discuss the matter with Miller (we discuss stuff like this a lot to promote consistency), and that I would get back to you as soon as possible.
The Straight Dope: Fighting Entropy Since 1973.