All I know about wiccans is that a friend of mine’s dad went wiccan after his divorce. It seemed to consist mainly of sitting around smoking pot and feeling spiritual.
I have aunts who know exactly which saint to ask for intercession in any given situation. They know the right way to bury a St. Joseph statue to sell your house. St. Jude is invoked constantly. Every room in their houses has some sort of devotional figure or vial of water from some sacred spring.
They may not be wiccans, but they are sure practicing “spellcraft” by any reasonable definition. And they can give you any number of examples of it working. Most Christians do not go to such an extreme, but they do believe in the effects of prayer.
This doesn’t answer your specific question, but it does point out that you are looking at one instance of a wide spead behaviour pattern.
well, i’m not wiccan but i have read a few books so maybe i can answer your question. spells are indeed important for practicing wicca but they really have more to do with “harnessing” personal power and directing it toward a particular end/purpose. i guess it’s somewhat analogous to the “power of prayer” idea, although i’d probably be yelled at by wiccans for saying that. the whole emphasis in wicca is on personal power and strength, so to someone not wiccan, spells seem like ritualized wishful thinking. as for proof, i’m not sure if there is any but i’d venture to say there is, just like prayers get answered. hope that helps.
shasta**
The Wiccans (not being the only folk who believe in spells and spell-casting BTW) are probably avoiding this thread because it’s been answered, and there was much hostility in the process. Those of us who believe (in whatever we believe in) have our proof. It appears, from past experience, that those of us who do not believe are unwilling to accept that our proof works for us.
In some ways, it almost feels like an anti-witnessing thread. Which isn’t exactly what I’m trying to say, but nothing better’s coming to mind after three cold tablets and a few brain rattling sneezes.
Do a search for “ask the Pagan Guy” and you’ll see what I mean.
Spellcraft is a very minor aspect of the faith for me, and what I have done has been more either mysticism (direct contact with the divine, universal to all religions), or a different approach to psychology. I’m guessing that’s not what the OP is asking for, though – I’m guessing it’s more something along the lines of “If we ask for stuff, do we think we’re going to get it?”
Many of my fellow Wiccans do practice magick, and I certainly wouldn’t consider any of them insane or delusional. I’ve seen more than my share of “ritualized wishful thinking,” but I’ve also witnessed a small handful of things I don’t think science has any answer (yet) for.
I do believe there is more out there than the rational mind can comprehend, and I don’t pretend to know everything about how the universe works. I think it’s best to leave the question open.
My own problem with the concept of magick was less theoretical and more practical – most practitioners put enormous amounts of energy, time, and money into elaborately constructed rituals that, even if they functioned at full effectiveness, still seem very inefficient compared to the commonplace actions required to achieve the same effect. So I just never saw much of a point in pursuing it.
Since I set myself up as The Neo-Pagan Guy a while back, I’ll jump in and try to answer this.
Throatshot, let’s clarify a few terms, first. When you say spellcraft, you might be thinking of magic or spellcasting like you see in movies or in role-playing games. That’s not what Wiccans do. There’s no nose-wiggling and poof suddenly and entire room has re-arranged itself or demons are summoned or flying thru the air. That’s Hollywood’s (and popular culture’s) perception of what magic is.
DrFidelius when he said:
I have aunts who know exactly which saint to ask for intercession in any given situation. They know the right way to bury a St. Joseph statue to sell your house. St. Jude is invoked constantly. Every room in their houses has some sort of devotional figure or vial of water from some sacred spring.
That’s pretty close to what Wiccans do for spellcraft or magic. We just use a different set of symbols and props
As for proof of their effectiveness, I don’t have any, except for my own personal experience but I don’t think you’ll accept that. I’ll back-peddle on my one comment in the Ask the Neo-Pagan Guy thread and say that it’s only one aspect of the religion and not a very big one at that. It’s not much different than prayer is in other mainstream religions.
I strongly disagree with what wave412 said about spellcraft and Wicca. It’s not about personal power and strength. It’s about personal growth and maturing as a human. It’s about your place in the world and how you are connected to everything else. There’s no central doctrine of Wicca, but I’d hazard to guess that most groups wouldn’t diagree with those ideas. There’s also an aspect of personal empowerment, especially for women who often feel neglected by the J/C/I view of Diety as entirely male. It’s not about gaining “experience points” or learning how to cast bigger spells.
I have no business making any comments in a thread on Neopaganism, but I cannot help noting that, in response to some real denigration, SqrlCub posted a very clear response about what he thinks that spellcraft means/does a bit over a year ago – in the Pit, no less! It helped clarify my understanding of Wiccan thought immensely.
I would rephrase this question to a non-Wiccan as “What proof do you have that prayers work?” Spellcraft is, to me, prayer given a more concrete form. The concept is that of harnessing and sending out not only one’s personal energy, but the energy found in all things for the purpose of achieving a goal. Proof that this works can come in the same form as proof of the power of prayer – sick people are miraculously healed, for example, or you pick the winning lottery ticket. It’s the same concept at its core, I believe. I know this is a tricky thing to explain so ask more questions if they’re needed, but I think you’ve got most of the answers in the rest of this thread.
I agree with the spellwork = prayer definition for the most part. For me, it tends to take the form of meditation. It certainly isn’t the main part of the religion, though media portayals would have you believe that.
There are a couple of reasons I think it works. I have no cites or studies, just unsubstantiated ideas, so take it for what it’s worth. For those who commonly practice spellcraft, it’s often about getting something they need or want. The object may be material, emotional, or what have you. Well, the first part of any spell is making sure you ask for exactly what you want. (Be careful what you wish for.) I think for anyone, of any (or no) religion, a clearly defined goal will help you attain it.
Also, you commonly hear the instruction that before perfoming a spell, you should make sure you have done what you need to on the mundane, physical plane. Again, this would further the goal for anyone.
You can see how this is going. Let’s say I need a better job, with more pay. The first thing I do is decide exactly what job I want; and then I make sure I have the necessary training, a polished resume, and that I show up on time for the interviews. If I do a spell to insure that I get the desired position, and it makes me feel better and more confident, I may very well make a better impression when talking to prospective employers. If I don’t have a clearly defined goal, or don’t do the mundane parts, I’m not as likely to be sucessful in the job hunt.
Those are just a couple of practical reasons. If I need a particular set of props to put this in action, why not? And who am I to say that prayers of any sort aren’t answered?
I hope this helps. Feel free to ask for clarifications!
Thank you, everyone! I understand better now, and I appreciate you taking the time to correct my ignorance. So, let me get this straight. You mean Harry Potter doesn’t really teach us about spells?
I have no business making any comments in a thread on Neopaganism, but I cannot help noting that, in response to some real denigration, SqrlCub posted a very clear response about what he thinks that spellcraft means/does a bit over a year ago – in the Pit, no less! It helped clarify my understanding of Wiccan thought immensely.**
Two questions, Polycarp; 1) could you post a link to the thread you mention? 2) Why do you think you shouldn’t post your opinions here? I’ve always found your insights to be delightful and thought-provoking.
I’d be happy to, but Sqrl’s post was part of a hijack of a Pit thread on a quite different subject, and I don’t recall enough of the details to find it (without searching through two years of Sqrl Pit posts).
By the OP, this was a thread asking for explanations by informed Pagans. That lets me out. I can give expertise on a number of religiously-related fields, but Neopagan Thought and Practice was not among my concentrations. And I doubt anyone wants Christian views insinuated into this thread. But thank you for the compliment! (Besides, I don’t want to get Lucki Chaarms mad at me.)
I can’t imagine someone taking the time to cast a spell and not thinking it will work.
I have to wonder if most Wiccans are pleased or offended by Hollywood’s take on witchcraft. Watching Charmed, I see that the evil broom-flying imagery is gone, which I am sure is a breath of fresh air. However, I also think that the magic is a little to overdone in Hollywood and almost makes the religion seem silly. As I understand it, most Wiccans do very little in the spell area, and mostly concentrate on become better people for the sake of all the earth. Also, the spells are less specific. For example, providing someone with good fortune. Any thoughts?
However, I also think that the magic is a little to overdone in Hollywood and almost makes the religion seem silly.**
Hrm. I hardly watch TV anymore and don’t even have cable. Which show(s) are you referring to? From what I last heard, there wasn’t a show that portrayed Wiccans as casting spells like “Bewitched” or other programs that have magic as major component of the plot.
A show portraying witches isn’t necessarily about Wiccans and vice-versa. Tho the two words (witch & Wicca) are related, they’re not synonymous.