Not to worry. Eventually he will return from Mictlan to the land of the living.
[quote=“cosmosdan, post:138, topic:474949”]
Are you sure?
Using Matt5:48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
The only way we can be perfect is if God acts through us. As I stated God uses our imperfection and makes it perfect. Going on transcription errors, in our imperfection we may make a mistake, but if done in the Spirit of God that is perfection as He will make it perfect by allowing the reader, acting in the Spirit, to uncover the hidden truth.
I agree with this
I think you make a dangerous leap here. While it is true that God will work all things for the good for those who Love Him and called according to His purpose, I would hesitate to say that this would work for many as many other books lead people away from the Lord purposely.
[quote=“kanicbird, post:135, topic:474949”]
Here again is where God steps in, using our imperfectness to make perfection. God knows we are not perfect, He does not want us to try to be perfect.
Ahem.
[QUOTE Jesus;]
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matt. 5:43-48).
I love it when the Babblewavers don’t even know their own “holy” Babble.
I’m still interested in the proof that the Jewish/Christian God is the right God and all the other ones that form parts of the other religions in this world are false. Did we get that? I’ve just read through the thread and I didn’t find it.
Because we have the Book and they don’t. Their books are all satanically inspired.
Why they are less valid in thinking our Book is satanically inspired is beyond me. You’d think one way would be testing the Book against reality, but kanicbird specifically rejects this, no doubt because our Bible doesn’t come out very well.
[quote=“Mapache, post:143, topic:474949”]
[quote=“kanicbird, post:135, topic:474949”]
Here again is where God steps in, using our imperfectness to make perfection. God knows we are not perfect, He does not want us to try to be perfect.
Ahem.
Mapache I answered this above:
The only way we can be perfect is if God acts through us. As I stated God uses our imperfection and makes it perfect. Going on transcription errors, in our imperfection we may make a mistake, but if done in the Spirit of God that is perfection as He will make it perfect by allowing the reader, acting in the Spirit, to uncover the hidden truth.
I do now, but didn’t at one time. I used to test scriptures against ‘reality’ and found as you did they didn’t match up. But after following the instructions in the Word I tested ‘reality’ against the Word and it does match and our ‘reality’ is revealed as what it really is, just a shadow of what is true and real.
Is it morally expected of me that I move to, say, regions where earthquakes and natural disasters are more common so that others may benefit from the protection I have? Likewise, if I see someone being robbed at gunpoint, am I morally obliged to step in front of the gun, as by doing so I risk nothing but may save lives?
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. This goes along the lines of ‘do not put the Lord your God to the test.’
Now if the Lord tells you to do so that’s another matter. In that extent He has told me to put myself in dangerous situations, and He has delivered me.
You make me nostalgic for the sixties, when people wore “Reality is a Crutch” buttons. They had drugs, you have religions, and I’m glad I use neither.
Gaius Baltar, is that you?
But surely there’s a difference between, say, someone electing to use their immortality to prove or disprove the existence of God, and someone simply utilising it in the course of their life to do good. After all, by the logic that to test God means simply to rely upon his aid in the faith that it will be provided, then to translate the Bible is to necessarily test God. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that if translating the Bible correctly is a matter of the intention of the translator, likewise to try and extend one’s protective immortality to others is likewise so?
But, surely, by asking people to save life and to attempt to deliver others to him, he is asking that? Or is there a difference in priority between things God says in the Bible and things God says to a person individually?
Part of the issue is, though we think we can do good, we really can’t know as we don’t have perfect knowledge. So using immortality to do what you think is good will fall short of ‘good’. Now there is nothing wrong with trying to do good as part of your life coming to God, before He gives you His Spirit, as God does judge the heart, and even if what you did is not good, if you intended good that will please God, and btw if your heart is pure you will see God. God also says all our (man’s) righteousness is nothing but filthy rags (referring to menstrual rags). So why would God want you leaving all filthy rags around? I’d say that may be a reason for Him to frustrate your efforts, so you focus on Him, and not on your mighty deeds.
We are really to live sensible until He starts guiding our lives.
The Bible is the test to judge what He says, to see if it’s really Him, as there will be times another spirit will pretend to be God, tell you things and the way we figure that out is to compare what He says to His Word.
I as a believer & follower, who God has given strong faith, know I can’t put myself in danger and expect divine protection unless He tells me to, why would He allow that for the person who is seeking? This is not what He wants. He wants to teach you His ways, and He is not going to start teaching something He will later revoke.
My personal road to the Lord Jesus, much like that video, started from direct service of the enemy and contact with them (though I was deceived into their service - long story, but I never intentionally harmed anyone). It was a long and very tormenting journey, it was full of little steps, where He build my faith along the way. Eventually giving me bigger and bigger steps.
Either way leave how God wants to prove Himself to you to Him. It’s not up to you to determine how He speaks to you. That’s what makes Him Lord, and us His servants, flipping it around is the work of the enemy.
Please could you give a clear, concrete example of this? (Before and after would be good).
You know, a clever non-God spirit could presumably take the precaution of creating his own scripture. How do you know the Bible is really the word of the One True God and not a clever forgery?
Well for one thing it’s not very clever. It’s full of stupidity and primitive thinking. There are contradictions in the information it presents as factual and it has a deeply flawed view of cosmology that is demonstrably wrong from Genisis on up.
No, if the bible were written by a supernatural force, it was written by a profoundly stupid supernatural force with no special insight.
So apparently you believe James 1:5 isn’t true.
There are plenty of passages about the spirit working in us. IMO the same spirit that leads us into all truth also teaches us to love. It helps us understand what real love is and get rid of all the things we often mistake for love. I Cor 13 is helpful for that also. According to my reading those who truly seek love will find it. That would include men like Gandhi who lived a life of service to his fellow men but was a Hindu.
That;s an interesting interpretation but I read it more like the story of the Good Samaritan in which the heart reflected in the deeds of kindness, matter more than labels. Jesus doesn’t ask us to just show loving kindness to believers does he? Read the whole passage. When Jesus addresses the cursed and they ask when they saw him. he responds.
from the Message.
The interpretation is about people in need not just believers. The fact that those who preformed these acts of kindness didn’t know shows they probably weren’t followers of Christ. Otherwise they wouldn’t have questioned their reward.
yes, his word being a living spirit rather than anything written.
The simple measure to judge taught by Jesus is to look at the fruits of the spirit to discern the spirit.
That’s a handy way to avoid explaining the problems. So the Spirit will preserve the written Word down through the ages, and then explain to you and some others why the apparent evidence of conflicts, contradictions, and changes, aren’t real, but not allow you or the others to explain it to me or write it in some manner that makes sense.
I think you’ll understand why that just seems like one more irrational justification.
Agreed, and we mentioned before that all religions contain them.
And when two people who believe the spirit is guiding them don’t agree what happens then?
As a living spirit it’s always available to everyone. I can easily believe that man has been moved to try and express his experience with God in writing and those writings can be very useful to the seeker. as 2 Tim. says
it says it’s useful.
Once again this seems like forced logic to support a preconceived notion.
If God is the well from which all love is drawn then it is the same. The difference IMO is learning to love truly and reject all those things mankind often mistakes for love.
Um, it appears you are the one making the assumption. Yes I assume the Bible was written by men because all the evidence points to that. You’re making a doctrinal assumption unsupported by the Bible.
Why would he? My take on free will says men can and have changed the original text.
There’s no way to twist logic and make that consistent.
I repeat, it’s an unsupported assumption that the Bible was ever God’s plan.
That’s a good idea if people could agree on what God was saying.
I’m afraid that doesn’t explain why people who believe the Bible is the word of God and the Holy Spirit teaches them what it means, still don’t agree with each other.
Once again, this is in direct contradiction to the copies of scriptures we possess and what Biblical scholars say.
I believe my beliefs are perfectly compatible with what Jesus taught. As far as all truth goes, I trust that to my ongoing spiritual journey and the guiding spirit I try to follow. Written words are tools and nothing more.
Haven’t you been reading? Because God said so.
But seriously folks, beliefs can be hard to accept and equally hard to let go of for a variety of reasons. Part of it is the emotional make up of a person and what they get from their chosen religion or lack of it. The blend of intellectual honesty and emotional honesty is very hard to gauge. People get very attached to their particular church and find it hard to consider that key beliefs may be wrong. I’ve sometimes compared it to finding out something bad about someone you really love and revere. The initial reaction is to reject it.
Conversely, someone may find a belief system meaningful and attractive but be concerned about what their friends might say if they suddenly got religion. The parable of the sower is about that in Mat 13:1-23; Mark 4:1-25, Luke 8:4-18.
I think it’s wise and appropriate for people to hold their religions beliefs provisionally but many do not. Their see their “truths” as absolute regardless of the evidence. Maybe we need a parable about that hmmmmmmm,
While I do have many, most are just as complex as proving evolution theory. There are many many facets. So instead of proving a big theory, I will chose a small aspect. That of slavery.
We assume in the US that Abe Lincoln freed the slaves, but did he really? or did he further the illusion that slavery is ended and made it much more hidden and deceptive? (No doubt that some were freed however) Are blacks still enslaved in chains and prisons, but in a much more deceptive way to turn the blacks against whites (the man) and have the whites think blacks are inferior?
I’ve heard it said why can’t (inner city blacks) just clean up their act, get a job and stick to it, better themselves and move to better places. Some of the conclusions that we can perceive are listed in the above paragraph, but is this the real reason. God has shown me no, blacks were taken into bondage because they worshiped other gods, and taken captive just like the Israeli people were by Assyria, or Judah by Babylon. They are being held in captivity and physically can not better themselves. Their captors will not let them as they benefit from their captivity. Now every so ofter some do break free, which has always been the case (since the Tower of Babel), sometimes there are mass exoduses.
One such exodus I believe is New Orleans. One of the hardest hit areas is the 9th Ward, which was below sea level, and a black ‘slum’. God has shown me that Ward is a prison term (Names are very important to God), and it is ‘below ground’ or underground. These people were sitting in cells below ground suffering in chains. God freed His people, though they are now wandering through the ‘desert’ now, totally dependent on God for their needs, and not leading a pleasant life. But I believe they are on their way to the promised land.
Some people think they are doing good at rebuilding N.O. but He has shown me that in reality they are being deceived into luring back some of the slaves back into slavery, and some will go back.
This is the deception of the world we are in, and how it’s made out like we are fighting each other, when in reality:
For me it’s the power of God, and the transformation of my life. As I mentioned in another post, at one time I did get into worship of the enemy, and I did experience their powers and read their ‘books of wisdom’ Both at the time seemed very much above man’s wisdom and far beyond our power. They seemed freeing. But God came to me and showed me His power, immediately the enemy’s power seemed very very dark and imprisoning and very very small.
The path that God has me on has turned my life around and I’ve been used by Him to free others. I have surrendered my life to Jesus, I asked for no terms or conditions, He is my Lord and I Love Him. He is the one that I have chosen to follow (though it was He who chose me). He has shown me what He wants me to consider scriptures, and other times inspired writings.
So the Bible is given to me by my Lord, that’s how I know. If it’s a clever forgery that’s OK, because that’s what my Lord has given me and if he is deceiving me then that’s what will be.