Might be because they don’t agree with political correcteness (whatever that may mean). Might be because they run on a platform of “brownies go home”. Difficult to tell, really.
Gotta give you props for originality though - usually the line is that them brownies be stealin’ our jobs. This unemployment shtick of yours is new. Then again, I suppose it was only a matter of time before the mythical Welfare Queen merged with the tried-and-true Foreign Menace. Consolidation’s the name of the game in this here global economy.
Yes, the theory that America is trying to destroy Sweden by forcing them to accept Muslim immigrants in furtherance of a Marxist ideology is unique all right. In the same sense that David Icke’s theory that the world cocaine trade is secretly being run by Anglo-Jewish lizards is unique.
RaleighRally, let’s for starters take note that a number of inaccuracies in your posts have been pointed out to you, and of you deciding on not addressing them but instead pursuing a tactic of evasion deeply, all of which hurts your credibility. What reason do we have really to spend precious time debating you when you have so far failed to demonstrate honesty and willingness to do your own homework?
Nevertheless I’ll proceed to pick your confused sophistry apart for sport - but let it be noted that I’m doing so against my better judgement.
Since WWII, on only two occasions did a xenophobic (or in swedish “främlingsfientligt”) party make the 4% election threshold to the Swedish parliament: in 1991 when Ny Demokrati got ~6% and in 2010 when SverigeDemokraterna got ~6%. That shows in a rather neat way how marginalized RaleighRally’s political views are in his home country, since all the other political parties (representing 94% of the electorate at the times when xenophobic sentiments have been the strongest) have usually been quite vocal in ostracizing xenophobic movements and their leaders.
One person in twenty adds up to a lot of people in the aggregate, but what good will it do ya when nineteen out of twenty still thinks you’re a tool?
So yeah, your position is marginalized and ostracized in Sweden. Should we pity you terribly that you choose to deal with that by going on the internet and pretending your fringe views are reasonable and self-evidently true, when they are in fact still fringe and laughed at and despised in your home country?
What you may hear about Sweden on the english-speaking internet is another story than what’s mainstream in Sweden though. As is often the case, the fringe is supremely motivated and will try to use the internet to spout b-llshit to people who are in no position to judge whether what’s being said is reasonable or not.
I don’t really need to point out that the tactic of using cherry picked crime stories to try to mobilize xenophobia is straight out of the Der Stürmer playbook. When it comes to Swedish xenophobes getting an outlet for their marginalized views online it’s par for the course though.
If you’d read your own cite you would have found that: “Immigration has important economic impacts on public services such as education and health. The current information and data available to assess these impacts are very limited.” That shows quite clearly that your assertions that the “welfare state” is in peril because of immigration are unwarranted and not supported by fact. Egg on your face, huh?
But why should I even bother doing your homework for you yet again? You have already shown that pointing out your inaccuracies will result only in evasion on your part. Crucially you have yet to acknowledge that it has already been established that Swedish immigration policy is historically an artifact of the western liberal democratic tradition rather than a marxist one, thus rendering your original point invalid.
Yes, cherrypicking a quote out of context from a guy who was the Prime Minister of Sweden for 23 years and a public figure even longer is a meaningful exercize. Not.
FYI: if I google that quote in swedish the second hit is the homepage of the neo nazi-allied political fringe party Nationaldemokraterna (>1% support). Perhaps you didn’t know that they’re also peddling that quote on the internet? You wouldn’t want to be seen doing the same stupid stuff as Neo Nazis, would you?
Needless to say there is no “Marxist press” to speak of in Sweden. Out of the four big dailies three are oriented to the right of Swedish politics and one is moderately left. The biggest “Marxist” paper I could find is named “Offensiv” - a paper I’d never heard of before, and not surprising given it has a circulation of 2400.
So what? The New York Protocol appeals to the Geneva Conventions, and the Geneva Conventions are no more “Marxist” than the UDHR is. You should take a hint from the fact that “Marxist” nations has been more prone to violate the GC and the UDHR than democratic capitalist nations.
And you seem to be forgetting where the burden of evidence lies. You asserted that Swedish Immigration policies are “Marxist” in nature, but you have failed to show that to be the case. What has in fact been shown is that Swedish immigration policies are based on the UDHR, the Geneva Conventions and the New York Protocol - neither of which are “Marxist” in nature and arguably the opposite.
IOW, more egg on your face.
Two points.
First Point: One “application” does not equal one “refugee granted asylum”. If you want to be credible, learn to start talking about number of applications approved. More egg on face.
Second Point: Being “good” does not equal being “Marxist”. I’m sure you knew that. But still, yet more egg on face.
In fact, going by the 102,280 total immigrants to Sweden in 2009 and 12% out of all 2010 immigrants being asylum while 20% being family reunification we get ~10K refugees and ~20K family reunification. ~30K in alles. That’s just my unscientific estimate by integrating different stats from 2009 and 2010, but thats still ten times better than your (possibly willful) conflation of applications, approvals and outright guessing.
Says who? You?
We currently have Iraqis (117,919), Iranis (59,922), Turks (40,766) and Somalis (31,734) (aggregated ~250K or 2,5% out of 9,4 million) as the largest muslim immigrant groups in Sweden, but OTOH we have Finns (172,218), Poles(67,518), Germans (47,803), Danes (46,002) and Norwegians (43,819) (aggregated 370k or 4%) all of which are Christians.
From my POW the only thing Swedes have to do to assure that their future immigrant overlords will be Good Christians is to make sure that the Finns and the Germans keep f-cking eachother. Given classical Finn stereotypes, vodka consumption should take care of that.
Let’s parse that for the guys and gals who know little about contemporary Sweden. The current Prime Minister from the right-wing conservative party Moderaterna. Who’s fathers fathers fathers father was an african-american, much in the same way Barack Obama is really Barack O’Bama. This black dude. Who was quoted in the Swedish tabloid Expressen as saying: “I condemn any form of violence and threats. But I’d like to take note that those who profit by stirring up divisions of ‘Us’ and ‘Them’ and promoting a hateful perspective on human relations should not be too surprised when these kinds of things happen.” (my translation).
This was said in the context of David von Arnold Antoni - a member of parliament from xenophobic party Sverigedemokraterna - who claimed he had been attacked by two “arab-sounding” men who cut a swastika into his forehead.
The forensic report, however, found that Antoni likely had inflicted the wounds on himself and then lied about it. Yeah guess you could call that the work of PC “storm-troopers”.
American observers will note the similarities to the McCain supporter who carved a “B” for Barack Obama into her own face and blamed it on a couple of black dudes not too long ago.. Bigots around the world - using the same pathetic M.O…
Let me first note that you have yet to address challenges to your last post. This failure to respond and instead posting new assertions hurts your credibility. It is of course perfectly consistent with the MO of xenophobic advocacy to just go on posting new links without bothering to do the hard work of getting the facts when challenged…
[QUOTE=Racist Violence In Sweden, Center against racism]
In 2009,
there were almost 600 reports identified as containing an anti-religious motive. Of all
reported anti-religious hate crimes, 42% were anti-Semitic, 33% were assessed to be
Islamophobic, and 25% were all other forms of anti-religious hate crimes.
In the report published by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention in 2010
regarding statistical data of hate crimes during 2009, the number of cases with a
xenophobic/racist motive amounted to 4,100. This is a decrease of about 100 reports
compared to 2008. The report showed that the majority of all hate crimes reported are
motivated by xenophobia/racism (71%). The most common offence types found among xenophobic/racist hate crimes are unlawful threats and harassment (42%) followed by violent offences (22%) and defamation (14%).
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]
. From 1979 to 1989 the ADL recorded more than 9,617 anti-Semitic incidents, including 6,400 cases of vandalism, bombings and attempted bombings, arsons and attempted arsons, and cemetery desecrations. The tally peaked at 2,066 in 1994, but declined over the next three years, consistent with the downward trend in national crime statistics. According to 1996 Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics, of 8,759 hate crimes recorded that year, 13 percent were antisemitic[citation needed].
[/QUOTE]
Obviously Swedish and US Hate Crime laws and their enforcement are not identical and Hate Crime statistics from the two countries cannot be assumed to be equivalent in how well they translate to the real world.
I think it probably is fair to say that Muslim immigrants are responsible for a large percentage of anti-semite hate crimes in Sweden and that it probably is to some extent a problem in certain areas with very high concentration of muslim immigrants and severe social strife such as Rosengard in Malmo. But as noted hate crimes in Sweden against jews are of the same order of magnitude as islamophobic hate crimes and about half in comparison to hate crimes against africans (585 in 2009, source: same report).
Thanks for the OECD data. The point remains, if you bring in unskilled migrants who are overrepresented in welfare and struggle to assimilate then these welfare states will not be sustainable. I don’t see how that is controversial. That is a problem in Europe according to this data (second generation non-European male immigrants apparently have lower employment rates than their parents, the women are faring somewhat better).
In relation to your point about requiring immigration to offset an ageing population, it will be interesting to see how Japan fares in the years ahead. Again though, it makes no sense to allow in people who are likely to themselves be welfare dependent.
What do you make of the Former Dutch EU commissioner’s comments? You seem to be overlooking the general trend.
Blatantly asserting stuff because you say so and then blatantly asserting that you think that your views are “uncontroversial” is… Unpersuasive. To support anything (immigration, aging population, whatever) actually making the Swedish welfare state “unsustainable”, you have to actually provide the numbers that proves it.
You have failed to provide those numbers, hence you are as of right now talking straight out your -ss.
That is the exact same blog that I just showed you was full of b-llsh-t- Do you remember those OECD numbers you just thanked me for supplying you with? Do you remember me pointing out that that very blog just asserted wildly different and inaccurate numbers?
Do you concede that “Super Economy Blog” wrote things about immigrant unemployment in Sweden that wasn’t true?
Are you fine with continuing to vouch for the accuracy of a guy that has been shown a liar?
This is false. I haven’t “required” anything. I’d like for you to acknowledge your mistake and retract.
You have yet to provide any numbers whatsoever on net revenues and spending for first generation immigrants in sweden. Given that, it’s self evident that you’re just just shamelessly going on asserting whatever you like.
You’re free to believe in whatever you like including Santa Claus for all I care - but if you can’t be bothered to provide any supporting evidence whatsoever why should we consider you anything but a general looney?
What “general trend”? One individual politician making a controversial remark is to be considered a “trend”? But let’s leave it at me being in general not at all as versed in Dutch politics as I am in Swedish politics. I’d rather see us sticking to the Swedish context since I seem to get stuck with correcting your inaccurate or non-existing data all the time…
And sticking to the Swedish context we find (in the same report I refered to earlier) that in 2009 non-antisemitic hate crimes in Sweden (ethnic and religious) were in fact at ~4500 while anti-semitic hate crimes were at about ~300.
Why do you think that those 6% are more important and more alarming than the other 94%? Especially considering you’ve spent your time in this thread so far promoting stock xenophobic assertions.
The unemployment rates for two of the populations you quoted were 4 times higher than the native born. Surely it’s not hard for you to understand that if you increase those populations then the welfare system is going to be unsustainable?
The trend of increasing anti-semitic violence caused by muslim immigration. There was an EU report on this a few years ago.
So you assert. And yet those very populations has been increasing for many years and yet the Swedish welfare state shows no sign of collapsing. At what year pray tell will that happen, according to your calculations?
You may want to ponder some random things:
Pretending the two ethnic groups with the highest current levels of unemployment makes up the majority of net immigration to Sweden is fraudulent.
Seniors make up a far larger and growing part of the population and their “unemployment rate” is pretty close to 100%.
Yet you seem for some reason to be hung up on immigrants. But in fact between immigrants and seniors immigrants are working and paying in taxes while seniors aren’t (working) and only paying taxes on Social Security payouts.
The groups of immigrants that I assume you are most worried about (a.k.a non-whitey) have the highest birth rates meaning that they help push the problem of aging and non-revenue generating population further into the future.
If you’d want to argue that eventually those immigrants will grow old as well and become seniors, fine. But it’s perfectly feasible to support a population that lives progressively long lives by growing the overall population with younger people most of which work and pay taxes.
And crucially, you’ve provided no data whatsoever to support your hypothesized inevitable collapse. The burden of proof is not on me. Saying “these people here generate less revenue than a white guy” is not the same thing as proving that the system will “collapse” because of them.
[QUOTE=Chen019]
The trend of increasing anti-semitic violence caused by muslim immigration. There was an EU report on this a few years ago.
Quite possible, but what that’s got to do with cherry picking quotes from some dutch politician beats me.
And crucially I pointed out that anti-semitic violence is a fraction of overall xenophobe violence in sweden.
I also did already acknowledge that I do believe there is a problem of anti-semitism among muslim immigrants, obviously relating to the situation in the middle east. That should absolutely be taken seriously and be dealt with by european authorities. Every european citizen should be safe, whether he be jewish, muslim or whatever.
But the absolute majority of hate crimes in Sweden are carried out by ethnical Swedes against immigrants. 19 out of every 20 hate crimes against non ethnical swedes are not carried out against jews but other immigrants.
But only those 1 out of 20 against jews seems to bother you at all - not the others?
Come to think of it, I already asked you about that, but you never adressed that in your post.
You also neither acknowledged nor apologized for the errors in your previous posts that were pointed out to you. You just pretended that never happened. For the second time now.
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson] RaleighRally, let’s for starters take note that a number of inaccuracies in your posts have been pointed out to you, and of you deciding on not addressing them but instead pursuing a tactic of evasion deeply, all of which hurts your credibility. What reason do we have really to spend precious time debating you when you have so far failed to demonstrate honesty and willingness to do your own homework?
[/QUOTE]
The thing is that you are not supposed to know about the truth behind political correctness, because it would then obviously be much harder to gain public support for this Marxist ideology. I gave you an excellent video so you can investigate this further.
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
You should take a hint from the fact that “Marxist” nations has been more prone to violate the GC and the UDHR than democratic capitalist nations.
[/QUOTE]
The USSR and its satellites only used the economic version of Marxism. But I think there was an unsuccessful attempt in Hungary to implement cultural Marxism, by Bela Kun. Béla Kun - Wikipedia
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
Since WWII, on only two occasions did a xenophobic (or in swedish “främlingsfientligt”) party make the 4% election threshold to the Swedish parliament: in 1991 when Ny Demokrati got ~6% and in 2010 when SverigeDemokraterna got ~6%. That shows in a rather neat way how marginalized RaleighRally’s political views are in his home country, since all the other political parties (representing 94% of the electorate at the times when xenophobic sentiments have been the strongest) have usually been quite vocal in ostracizing xenophobic movements and their leaders.
[/QUOTE]
Did you know that ALL major newspapers and TV channels in Sweden actively opposed the Sweden Democrats? On election day, both Aftonbladet and Expressen showed a big appeal on their front page urging the Swedes NOT to vote on SD. SD’s commercial was not allowed to be shown on TV. Not really a fair and democratic election. By the way, Arnold Antoni is not a member of parliament, but Michael Aastrup Jensen, a member of the Danish Parliament for the Liberal Party, says this: “None of the established parties and none of the established media in Sweden like to discuss it because they feel like it is not politically correct,” said Jensen. “There is a ‘blanket’ drawn all over the Swedish media. This should be a wake-up call to all the other parties.”http://rt.com/politics/swedish-elections-immigration-controversy/
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
Crucially you have yet to acknowledge that it has already been established that Swedish immigration policy is historically an artifact of the western liberal democratic tradition rather than a marxist one, thus rendering your original point invalid.
[/QUOTE]
Combining generous welfare and nearly open borders is not a liberal tradition.
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
Yes, cherrypicking a quote out of context from a guy who was the Prime Minister of Sweden for 23 years and a public figure even longer is a meaningful exercize. Not.
[/QUOTE]
Can you find ANY context in which his statement would NOT be considered racist by today’s standards? Isn’t it a bit strange that this “old artifact of the western liberal democratic tradition” was so abruptly shifted in less than a decade?
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
And sticking to the Swedish context we find (in the same report I refered to earlier) that in 2009 non-antisemitic hate crimes in Sweden (ethnic and religious) were in fact at ~4500 while anti-semitic hate crimes were at about ~300.
[/QUOTE]
This thread is about Europe in general. But ok, let’s focus on the Scandinavians for a while, and why not bring in an American scholar. According to a professor at Harvard who is the world’s leading political scientist and expert on social capital, one can even now measure the positive impact on America’s social structure as a result of the Scandinavian immigration.
The best single migration-based positive determinant of social capital [in the US] is the fraction of the population that is of Scandinavian descent.http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/6/1825848.pdf
High social capital is very important in a society. High social capital leads to less crime, less corruption and greater productivity, among other things. Social capital tends to decline in diverse communities, and in Scandinavia immigration will of course also mean less fraction Scandinavians, further fueling the decline of social capital.
So please tell me ** SherwoodAnderson**, how the research of this Harvard professor fits into your dream world of large third world immigration and generous welfare state.
Loled. The tyranny of Political Correctness means i get to make up my own reality, ignore the facts and just keep on spouting lies.
Quoted for hillariousness.
And 19 out of 20 swedes detest Sverigedemokraterna. Presumably the major newspapers want to sell papers to 95% of the population rather than the remaining 5%.
You’re probably correct.
But he’s still a Sverigedemokraterna politician and he carved a swastika into his own head and lied about a couple of Arabs doing it. And that’s the event that Reinfeldt was referring to in the quote that you mistranslated and took out of context while lying that there are Political Correctness Stormtroopers in Sweden, hunting down xenophobic truth sayers and killing them (we’re way down the rabbit hole here).
Yes, he’s a member of Venstre, a danish center-right party. E.g. not “liberal” in the US sense. Of course, anyone with a fair knowledge of danish politics knows that the danish right wing (including Venstre) chose to form a coalition government together with Dansk Folkeparti - the danish version of Sverigedemokraterna. But really - why should we even go there? Who made Michael Aastrup Jensen an authority on your homeland? Do you need me to go out and get a couple of quotes by swedes about the state of danish politics?
And did he say anything about Cultural Marxism, PC Stormtroopers and impending doom? In that case I missed it.. Maybe you could track down a new Quote, perhaps from Pia Kjersgard…
The only “open borders” in Sweden are those mandated by EU membership. 2 out of 3 asylum seekers a year are denied asylum. Ten thousand people a year are granted asylum or about 0.1% in relation to the population of Sweden. The international law that defines the right of asylum is indeed as established a part of liberal tradition. Further, the burden of proof is yours to prove that it is in fact not liberal tradition but marxist tradition as you continue to assert while having been shown wrong several times already.
Not at all, what happened was that throughout the 50s until the 80s the old colonies gained independence and the civil wars, dictatorial regimes etc that followed resulted in refugees that started seeking asylum as were now allowed under the different international laws enacted from the 50s through the 70s (sprung from western liberal tradition), and since those countries had now gained independence it was no longer just a colonial matter any more, as it had been before. IOW, there were no Iraqi or Vietnamese or Chilean refugees before because they were all british and french and spanish subjects.
“World’s leading political scientist”? According to who? You?
For one thing, there isn’t any agreement on that. For another, all that amounts to is a claim that “social capital” is built on evil, which means it doesn’t matter if it’s useful or not. If “social capital” requires that bigotry be the law of the land to work, then social capital isn’t desirable.
You specifically brought up Sweden and Malmo in your OP, so it makes a convenient topic since we’re both familiar with the subject.
Define “social capital”. Can I pay for Granny’s health care with “social capital”? Explain how the US of the 19th century was not a “diverse community” and how scandinavian immigrants did not make 19th century US more diverse rather than less. You should be painfully aware that your argument is bleedingly self-contradictory already.
Moving on, I never spoke of no “dream world of large third world immigration and generous welfare state”. Show me where or retract.
What there is right now - in the country Sweden - is a generous welfare state and modest annual quotas of asylum seekers from all around the world together with a much more substantial labor immigration, and people that move freely within the EU.
That country doesnt seem to be going anywhere, it’s right there, right now. Do you want me to prove to you that your home country exists?
Marry her (Do y’all still do that in Sweden, get married, I mean?) and start pushing out babies. You’ll be helping your country, and having fun at the same time. But let’s face it, you and your fellow travelers don’t have the balls. Literally and figuratively.
Meanwhile, insist that your government, schools, news media, and corporations inculcate the Swedish language, way of life and cultural traditions into everyone. No exceptions. No bullshit whining about defaming the Prophet. No segregating or covering women up (unless they’re in private, then it’s their own choice.)
In short, make your visible minorities disappear through assimilation, and establish stricter immigration controls.
But please, please, stop whining about how the USA made you take on them dang furriners. We didn’t. Left up to us, we’d end your national health care system, your generous vacation time and protections for workers. That’s just how we roll, because we believe in treating our working class like shit, and they love it that way.
But let’s face it, you and your fellow travelers don’t have the balls. Literally and figuratively.
