Although I don’t want to make it the main topic of this thread, I think one of the following is going to happen in the near future in the US (and there is some overlap between them):
Civil war of some sort (some would say we’re in a “cold” civil war right now–I think they’re right).
Breakup of the US into Red/Blue countries (whether from above-mentioned civil war or not).
The same old pretty intolerable polarization we have now lasting forever, but worse, somehow, without it turning into a hot civil war.
I think at least #3 is pretty unavoidable, and I’d say we have about a 65% chance of 1 or 2 happening in my lifetime (I’m 50).
But for the sake of this thread, let’s just assume that the caca is heading fanward. If that’s the case, is Hawaii a good place to be? I’ve had an interest in relocating to Maui, and my feeling is that sooner is probably better than later. I’ve never actually visited yet, but I think I could do well there. I’m fluent in Japanese and work as an interpreter/translator, so that should be of some use.
Here are my thoughts. Tell me where you think I’m right or wrong. Some of these are pretty obvious, I think.
Hawaii is solidly Democratic, so it would be on the “good guy” side of any conflict (i.e., Blue).
Or Hawaii could use the implosion as an opportunity to become independent. If so, it could choose to grandfather in current residents and limit newcomers. That’s why I think it might be better to go there now as opposed to long after the 2022 midterms or, shudder, the 2024 presidential election.
Hawaii is likely to thrive in a post-US-implosion world, thanks to tourism, agriculture, and the other stuff it has going on. It’s unlikely to draw the ire of bad actors like Putin’s Russia or be nuked for no reason (at least after the current nascent WWIII is over). It’s distant from a lot of other stuff. It’s safe, seemingly.
The wild card, however, is Pearl Harbor and the US military presence there. It would be nice if there were no base there at all, but it could be contested by the Red/Blue sides. If Hawaii declares independence, it could be told “nuh uh” by the side that holds the base, or a situation like Guantanamo could be imposed upon the newly formed country (for those who don’t know, the US has forced Cuba, a Communist country, to lease Guantanamo as a base since, well, forever now, which is pretty weird, when you think about it).
Those are my thoughts. I do think this country is going tatas up, so I’m trying to think what the smart thing is to do…
Hawaii imports something like 90% of its food. In your hypothetical absolute clusterfuck, those shipments are going to be disrupted and a lot of people are going to be at risk of starving to death.
That doesn’t even get into the tactical importance of Pearl Harbor. If America collapses, I give pretty good odds of China or Russia straight-up invading it. Especially if it declares independence. Hawaii isn’t safe because it’s in the middle of nowhere. It’s a target because it’s literally in the middle of nowhere.
So buy a whole lot of dried beans and learn Mandarin, Russian, or both.
I think California will be a better choice. There’s the problem of water being in short supply, but I’m counting on advances in energy technology making desalinization of seawater practical. If that falls short, cultural changes will be necessary. Few people really need a shower every day.
Well, yes, so the idea is to get there quickly and be “grandfathered” in. My guess is that they would let the Asians stay at least, and I know Japanese, so…
I think we’re still a few decades away from a California secession, assuming it ever happens, remember the last time a bunch of states tried to secede? It’s not like Washington D.C. is going to throw up its hands and say “we give up trying to govern you idiots, have at it on your own”. And even if Trump was reelected, which I think is unlikely but not impossible, I don’t think the left would organize either a secession or a civil war. They would simply move to Canada or some other rational country. California is big enough to be its own country, but would it really want to be surrounded on three sides by foreign countries?
Ever hear of the word Californication? It’s what happens to neighboring states when wealthy Californians march in and buy up all the land and houses. As a Californian, I learned never to talk about where I was from in Oregon or Washington to avoid getting the shit kicked out of me. I went to college on the northern border of California. We went shopping up in Oregon because they didn’t have any sales tax… still don’t.
As far as Nevada goes, I think most Californians look at Nevada as the poor next-door neighbor that keeps you up at night making a lot of noise. Reno, Las Vegas, legalized gambling and prostitution. A true paradise. Have you ever driven across Nevada? Miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles, and the Federal Government owns most of the state, which is lucky since nobody in the right mind is going to buy any of it. This is IMHO, right?
I agree with most of what’s posted above. Food security is a HUGE issue here.
The “honest Hawai’i tourism ad” that @Stranger posted is a bit harsh but contains much truth.
Also: PLEASE don’t move to Maui. The locals are increasingly homeless while rich haoles drive up prices. If you don’t care about that, know that there is a move afoot to jack up property taxes on the homes that sit empty for large parts of the year while their rich owners use them only as vacation homes. While that wouldn’t directly affect someone moving to Maui full time, there is clearly a trend toward extracting the wealth of outsiders to begin redressing some of the terrible disparities that currently exist, so you might want to think twice about how much you are prepared to pay.
Plus, don’t ever think that simply moving to Maui will make you a local. It won’t, because you’re not. They don’t really want you there and you’ll feel that.
I can’t speak to Maui (I live on the Big Island) but setting aside scenarios where imports have stopped and everyone is fighting over scraps, I’m not sure how true that is.
Seems to me like a lot of haoles, especially retired ones that moved to Hawai’i after spending most of their lives somewhere else, just hang out with each other and hardly notice the locals. I myself am somewhat guilty of that, though not by choice - it’s just the way things tend to settle out. After all, you can’t very well go charging into Hawaiian homestead land beating down doors while shouting “I want to be your FRIEND, oh native!”
As for me, I actually interact with representatives of the Native Hawaiian community reasonably often, for work related reasons. No one has ever made me feel even slightly unwelcome.
It may be different elsewhere; I can only speak from direct experience living in East Hawai’i.
I know quite a few people who have gone to Maui, ended up on the wrong beach, and were aggressively hassled by locals. I’ve been to Maui 7 or 8 times and have learned to be careful traveling upcountry and away from popular tourist areas. Nobody ever threatened me, but I definitely felt that I had wandered into an area not for tourists and should think about leaving. I really like the South Beach areas of Makena and Wailea, but this is an expensive area completely occupied by tourists and wealthy mainlanders who pretty much stay to themselves.
Fair enough. Here on the Big Island, while I’m sure there are spots where it would be inadvisable to go, there aren’t many of them, there’s no real need to visit them, and you can have a happy and fulfilling life deluded into thinking that everybody likes you.
I’m not saying it’s the right state of affairs, morally speaking, just that I’m pretty sure there are ways to lead a fulfilling life as a haole newcomer in Hawai’i where you will never feel hostility. I guess wandering around non-tourist beaches on Maui is not one of those ways!
What about Canada? Sure, there’s an immigration issue, but we’ve generally always welcomed educated, progressive Americans wanting to live in a free country. As a bonus, you get free health care and get to send your kids to school without fear of being shot at.
As a bonus, you get free health care and get to send your kids to school without fear of being shot at.