Will I really go to hell?

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**Hell isn’t eternal? Himmm…And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7

Sure sounds eternal to me.

Where does it say that only those who desire to go to hell go there? I don’t see that in my Bible anywhere.

I wouln’t base anything on nde experiences no matter how many people have them. **

You quote the Bible like it is truth, how did you determine it was truth, did someone tell you that it is? Was that someone God?
We know only by experience, all the rest we take on faith.
What may be your faith is not necessarily mine. Since neither of us can show proof, it is only my thoughts against yours.

Man created heaven and hell, not God. The only thing eternal is God, the rest is not. I have no proof of this either, this my belief.
“The only true knowledge is knowing that you know nothing.” – Socrates

[manhattan]

*Originally posted by Libertarian *
** That’s why I say that if the one whom you call Jesus is not the one that I’ve identified here, then it certainly deserves no worship. It isn’t that you’re wrong at all. **

Gotcha. Thought I had fallen off the train of thought for a sec there. Nice to see I’m still on it (if in the caboose! )

[amazonian]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scantilly *
**

QUOTE—If you believe in god then surely you also believe that god created a vast range of belief systems and religious proclivities. We have also been given the ability to choose freely, drawing both from our ability to reason and our passionate inclinations.

First of all, I do believe in God, and alas, I do not belive God created all of those religeons out there. First of all christianity is NOT i repeat IS NOT a religeon, it’s the decision to follow christ, sound it out now, CHRIST -IAN , christ- like. God did not create all of those religeons, he created all those differnet people, silly goose. All of those differnet people have formed different religeons due to differnences in opinion.
OH YEAH, God gave us a free will cause he ain’t no cheap creator. He wants us to make the decision to love him, would it really be worth it for God to create us if we had no choices? You tell me. I wouldn’t create a race that was forced to love me, it’s like the non-satisfaction you get when you cheat in a game, getting extra money or being able to control the person in the game, LIKE THE SIMS! so that it’s easier on you, it’s cheap, and God is genuine.

QUOTE—Do you really believe that god wants us all to prescribe to the same religious beliefs? Why would he have wasted his time creating so much diversity?

There you go again… ITS NOT RELIGEON GOD CARES ABOUT!!! IT IS THE FAITH YOU HAVE IN HIM AND HOW FAR YOU ARE WILLING TO GO TO SHOW IT! NOT RELIGEON…

QUOTE—A Christian friend of mine recently offered the thought that each religion holds a piece of the puzzle. Perhaps if we were able to glean the wisdom inherent in each system our lives would more closely mirror the spirituality that those who are religiously inclined aspire to.

Your friend here is pretty naive. my goodness. Every religeon does not hold a peice to the puzzle. It’s not a puzzle. It’s called the bible, you probably have 10 around your house like every perosn in North America. It’s a shame that people like you and your friend so readily make assumptions about christianity, read the bible and maybe you’ll think twice, maybe you have read it, YEAH WELL READ IT HARDER. God didn’t mean for people to think christianity to be so cryptic, its the fact that we are too stubborn to take it for what it actually says.

QUOTE—I am interested to find out if there are truly people in the world who believe that I am going to hell because I am not Christian. How can you justify this in the light of overwhelming proof that if god was our creator, then she was a believer in diversity?

Any real christian would not condemn you to hell. That’s God’s decision. But it does clearly state in the Bible that there is no way to heaven except thru jesus. I’m not one to judge, but that’s what it says, take it in whatever way you will but God knows your heart, no one but God.

God does beleive in diversity, but not when it contradicts what God is about. Just like I don’t like people spreading rumours about me, God doesn’t like it either. Diversity you say? It’s not diversity, its religeon, and as far as religeon goes, its crap. God could care less if you wear make up or pray at the break of dawn or sing in church. Its what your heart says to him. These are all symbols of affection to God from us, but not nearly as important as loving him truly. Alot of the time christian get religeon posted across their foreheads, which may be true for some, but the real christians know there is more to God than that. God is who he is, he isn’t a man, he isn’t a woman, God is God… is God, nothing less.

PS. please research some unbiased sources before you ever make assumptions about my faith. Your opinions are very unsupported and uninformed.

[lynn73]

*Originally posted by amazonian *
**
QUOTE
its the fact that we are too stubborn to take it for what it actually says.

Any real christian would not condemn you to hell. That’s God’s decision. But it does clearly state in the Bible that there is no way to heaven except thru jesus. I’m not one to judge, but that’s what it says, take it in whatever way you will but God knows your heart, no one but God.

God **

You said it well, amazonian. People are just plain too stubborn and bullheaded to take it for what it says. I agree wholeheartedy with that statement. They make themelves feel secure by constantly arguing and debating about what it says. That way they never have to make a decision.

And you’re right, it’s not up to us to condemn people. Just tell them what God says. And it does clearly say no one goes to heaven but through Jesus alone. They’ll have to accept or reject it but that’s what it clearly says. But it’s only God who knows what’s in a heart and as long as there’s life, there’s hope that they’ll come to Christ.

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**You said it well, amazonian. People are just plain too stubborn and bullheaded to take it for what it says. I agree wholeheartedy with that statement. They make themelves feel secure by constantly arguing and debating about what it says. That way they never have to make a decision.

And you’re right, it’s not up to us to condemn people. Just tell them what God says. And it does clearly say no one goes to heaven but through Jesus alone. They’ll have to accept or reject it but that’s what it clearly says. But it’s only God who knows what’s in a heart and as long as there’s life, there’s hope that they’ll come to Christ. **

People are not necessarily stubborn or bullheaded because they don’t accept your form of church doctrine. There are millions of people who never heard of the Bible, and millions more who have, but don’t consider it the authority for their lives.

These people have a right to choose the same as you. Calling them names only points to your own stubborness.

No one is going to burn in hell forever, that is certain in my experience, no one.

Love

[Gaijin]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
** But it’s only God who knows what’s in a heart and as long as there’s life, there’s hope that they’ll come to Christ. **

His4Ever, does the Bible say when someone must come to Christ? Is it not possible that, after Joe Buddha dies, having led a good life, he finds himself before the Pearly Gates with Jesus in front of him, asking Joe to accept Him? Does the Bible rule this possiblity out?

Additionally, does the Bible say how one must accept Christ? Does the Bible explicitly say that Joe Buddha must get on his knees and say “Oh Lord Jesus, I accept you into my heart, etc etc”? Is it possible that, by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, and by making other sacrifices, Joe Buddha has in fact accepted Christ without realizing it? Does the Bible explicitly rule this possibility out?

[amazonian]

I never ever called anyone stubborn or bullheaded! What are you thinking? And i know very well that like 2 billion people don’t even know what or who jesus is, I know I know I know, goodness. That’s why we have things called missionaries, while most of them don’t even brand it on their foreheads, they are usually there to teach, donate or stop aids, etc. And i am not forcing my beleifs on you. It is a fact that christianity is not a religeon, duh. Not my opinion. Think about it b4 you make some cheap ass reply.

[Gaijin]

*Originally posted by amazonian *
** It is a fact that christianity is not a religeon, duh. Not my opinion. Think about it b4 you make some cheap ass reply. **

How nice, I just got to reply to this exact lie in another thread. I’ll just copy and paste.

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

---

re·li·gion

NOUN

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

Last I checked, Christianity did, in fact, involve both belief in and reverence for a supernatural power, namely Jesus/God.

You look good with your foot in your mouth, btw.

Pax. ;j

[amazonian]

GAHHH… THAT"S THE WHOLE POINT! THE DICTIONARY IS WRONG!!! Is there an echo in here? Like i said b4, what could webster know about faith, I don’t know what he thinks about faith, but christianity is not a religeon, it is to be christ like, ie, follow christ. Religeon is the culture and traditional crap that some people think is important and that God cares, maybe he does, but I don’t think so, but who am i to say what god thinx. My lord, there are many doctrines that use christianity as their fundamental law or cornerstone, but the thing that usually makes the doctrines vary is relifeon, again, traditions and different cultures… umm hey ding dong, you forgot the rest of the definition, yeah that’s right, i know about the online dictionary too…

religion
n.

1.a.Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

I don’t know about you, but I think that you left out some crucial info there paco. Nxt time don’t lie, yes, only telling part of the truth IS lieing, silly goose.

[amazonian]

um, i think i planted my foot up your butt, so uhh, it could’t be in my mouth, plus i would never suck on a dirtied foot!

[Liberal]

His4Ever wrote:

And it does clearly say no one goes to heaven but through Jesus alone.

It says also that many will call Him “Lord”, and He will say He never knew them.

[Latro]

amazonian
That there are more than one version of how the christain religion is practised, doesn’t change that your ‘cornerstone’ isn’t based on the belief in a certain supernatural being, Jesus. It is a different ‘cornerstone’ than Hinduism has, for instance. Catholicism isn’t a different religion from Presbytarianism. They are both different forms of the christian religion.
That ‘cornerstone’ is what we call religion. Different cornerstone, different religion.

[Gaijin]

Amazonian,

There are multiple definitions, yes. However, a word does not have to match every definition in order to be that word. If that were the case, it would be one very large definition rather than several shorter ones. I just happened to post the definition that fit, which also happened to be the first, and thus most common, meaning of the word religion.

Prime example - the word ‘right.’ It could be a direction, or the state of being correct. If I did not define what I meant, but used it in a fashion that would be indicative of direction, it would be safe to say that I am using the definition that defines right as the direction rather than the state of being correct. Likewise, since you, H4E, and others have used the word ‘religion’ in a sense that is indicative of having a belief and reverence for a supreme spiritual being, I decided to post the definition that fit.

And, for the record, religion is spelled “R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N.” There’s no “E” after the “G.”

[lynn73]

*Originally posted by Gaijin *
**His4Ever, does the Bible say when someone must come to Christ? Is it not possible that, after Joe Buddha dies, having led a good life, he finds himself before the Pearly Gates with Jesus in front of him, asking Joe to accept Him? Does the Bible rule this possiblity out?

Additionally, does the Bible say how one must accept Christ? Does the Bible explicitly say that Joe Buddha must get on his knees and say “Oh Lord Jesus, I accept you into my heart, etc etc”? Is it possible that, by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, and by making other sacrifices, Joe Buddha has in fact accepted Christ without realizing it? Does the Bible explicitly rule this possibility out? **

Hmm, I really don’t see any indication of the possibility of salvation after death. If there was that chance, why would Jesus tell His followers to go unto all the world and preach the gospel to every creature? Or why would there be verses like “Today if ye hear his voice, harden not your hearts” or “Behold now is the time of salvation”? Sorry, don’t have the references but can look them up later if you desire. I just don’t see the necessity of going to all the world and preaching the gospel if everyone’s going to get a second chance after death. Doesn’t make sense.

I don’t believe you can accept Christ without knowing it. It’s a conscious decision each person must make. It’s true that Joe Buddha may have lived a wonderful life of good deeds but the Bible teaches that good deeds, as important as they are, are not what gives salvation. You don’t have to be in any particular postion to accept Christ nor do you have to speak out loud. You can speak directly to Him in your heart and He will hear. Now I don’t know it all, of course. Perhaps Joe Buddha heard about Jesus and the salvation story once, but maybe forgot it. And perhaps he can come to know Him without realizing it at first. But I believe there’s a time when he would realize that he has made a decision for Christ.

The rich man in hell didn’t get any second chance. He wasn’t even aloud to go tell his brothers about that place. He was told that they had Moses and the prophets. In my humble opinion, it’s dangerous to put off this decision thinking that you’ll get a second chance later if you never get around to it now.

amazonian, calm down a little, huh?

[lynn73]

Where is there an online dictionary? I never thought of that.

[lynn73]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**
These people have a right to choose the same as you. Calling them names only points to your own stubborness.

No one is going to burn in hell forever, that is certain in my experience, no one.

Love **

The first statement I can agree with. The second statement I don’t agree with.

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**Hmm, I really don’t see any indication of the possibility of salvation after death. If there was that chance, why would Jesus tell His followers to go unto all the world and preach the gospel to every creature? Or why would there be verses like “Today if ye hear his voice, harden not your hearts” or “Behold now is the time of salvation”? Sorry, don’t have the references but can look them up later if you desire. I just don’t see the necessity of going to all the world and preaching the gospel if everyone’s going to get a second chance after death. Doesn’t make sense.

I don’t believe you can accept Christ without knowing it. It’s a conscious decision each person must make. It’s true that Joe Buddha may have lived a wonderful life of good deeds but the Bible teaches that good deeds, as important as they are, are not what gives salvation. You don’t have to be in any particular postion to accept Christ nor do you have to speak out loud. You can speak directly to Him in your heart and He will hear. Now I don’t know it all, of course. Perhaps Joe Buddha heard about Jesus and the salvation story once, but maybe forgot it. And perhaps he can come to know Him without realizing it at first. But I believe there’s a time when he would realize that he has made a decision for Christ.

**

I don’t think you understand that God is greater than the Bible you quote all the time. He is also greater than the sacred writings of all other religions. It is not up to you or anyone to say who will come to God, and by what means. That decision is God’s and He has already made it. He accepts and loves all His children whether they are christian or not. Whether they understand Him or not. The Bible is not God, and if you would quit worshipping it, read the thoughts of others, it would help you find the God you seek to cast out the fears of Him you hold and teach.

Love

[Gaijin]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**
The rich man in hell didn’t get any second chance. He wasn’t even aloud to go tell his brothers about that place. He was told that they had Moses and the prophets. In my humble opinion, it’s dangerous to put off this decision thinking that you’ll get a second chance later if you never get around to it now.
**

There’s a fundamental difference between the case of the theoretical Joe Buddha and The Rich Man. JB led a good life of sharing and sacrifice, while TRM was a selfish goon who had every opportunity to help Lazarus, but didn’t.

But, now I must pounce… there’s nothing in the Bible that explicitly rules out the possibilities that I outlined above? You may not see the necessity of going out to all the world now if the good ones can accept Christ after death, but that wouldn’t be what the Bible says, that’d be the sense you’re trying to make of it, your own application of interpretation. And I thought that’s what those wacky Catholics did, and you’re supposed to take the Bible just for what it says.

With this in mind, H4E, does Joe Buddha have a chance to enter Heaven, or is he outta luck?

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by amazonian *
**I never ever called anyone stubborn or bullheaded! What are you thinking? And i know very well that like 2 billion people don’t even know what or who jesus is, I know I know I know, goodness. That’s why we have things called missionaries, while most of them don’t even brand it on their foreheads, they are usually there to teach, donate or stop aids, etc. And i am not forcing my beleifs on you. It is a fact that christianity is not a religeon, duh. Not my opinion. Think about it b4 you make some cheap ass reply. **

Not sure whose post you are upset about. But each person has the right to their opinions. Christainity is defined as a religion because it is one.

[RedFury]

No one is going to burn in hell forever, that is certain in my experience, no one.

And your “experience” would be? Because, as far as I know, no one has ever come back from the dead – mythical beings included.

Anyway, I have no idea what possible ‘collective conclusion’ can be gathered from faith-based debates such as this one. Other than the fact that people will go on believing whatever it is they choose to believe regardless of how nonsensical it sounds to someone else.

Personally, I think all religions are nonsense at their core. But hey! that’s just me.