Actually, the state of public opinion on health-care reform is a lot more complicated than that.
:dubious: Legislative quid pro quo != “shenanigans.”
I doubt the American public would be so charitable when the Republicans get painted as shutting down government.
What exactly do you think legislators do all day? Practice jumping in front of the Constitution in case they ever have to take a bullet for it? The full text of their oath (which isn’t actually spelled out in the Constitution) is:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God. "
The duties of the office are to represent the legal interests of the constituents, which takes up most of the legislator’s time. Among the legislators, the ones who have to regularly consider Constitutional issues are the members of the Senate and House judiciary committees, and even they have other duties to tend to.
So, that “superfluous” bit was a massive dump-truck of wrong, relying on an incomplete read of a ritual phrase and assuming it represented complete truth to teh exclusion of all else. Fact is, a congressional member who only tended to congressional issues would be useless. That’s the judiciary’s job.
So, let me get this straight: The fact that a lot of Americans don’t like the state of the health care bill after the Republicans have watered it down to much less than it was supposed to be is evidence that the original form of the bill before the obstructionism was a bad idea in the first place?
Its totally the doom of the Democrats, no question. Look what happened before, Clinton failed at health care, and everything went to shit. Clinton is white trash from Arkansas who plays the saxophone. Obama is half-black from everywhere and shoots hoops, the parallel is uncanny!
No way to tell which way the public will jump, that’s the trouble with herding cats, you can’t. Will the blame the Dems for failing for the Pubbies for blocking?
But a lot of people had a lot of hope set on this, as a way out of present misery and worry. And they’re going to be pissed. And maybe they’ll forget the spectacle of the Pubbies tearing their hair and screaming their lungs out to stop them from getting help. Maybe they’ll blame the Dems.
We’ll see.
Isn’t it funny how only the conservatives’ polls show those kind of crap numbers?
Well, the low hanging fruit here is that almost every aspect of it is a violation of article 1, section 8. It is not within the federal government’s power to pass the law.
Yes, I get it - article 1, section 8, despite being the most important part of the constitution, is routinely ignored. My original point to bring up constitutionality was that someone was angered that something going on here might violate the constitution. Well duh! Almost all the federal laws due. Let’s not pretend we still adhere to what the constitution says. If we’re just going to ignore it wholesale, let’s just not bring it up and pretend it never existed. It makes you look silly to pick and choose pet sections that you think are meaningful when you largely do not understand the rest of the document, or even its reason for existance.
When someone says a law is unconstitutional I assume they are referring to the current interpretation of the Constitution given by the Supreme Court. The Constitution itself says that it says whatever the Supreme Court says it says.
If you have a different position on what it means for a law to be unconstitutional, please let us know. Otherwise we’ll just be talking past each other.
If you are going to disagree with the Supreme Court, then fine, go ahead. Just don’t argue like it’s anything other than your own opinion. Because if you say “law X is unconstitutional” no one will think you are talking about your own opinion and not that of SCOTUS unless you say so.
Eh, the supreme court granted itself the ability to determine what’s constitutional, not the constitution. It’s also a slave to precedent and given the nature of governments to expand in size and power over time, this is clearly what happens when you allow a constitution to be fluid. The whole point of the constitution is that it’s not a “living document”, it’s a hard set of rules that’s set up exactly to prevent the sort of scenario you are now using it to justify. When was the last time a lawmaker had to justify a law based on the power granted by the constitution to make that law? That never happens - the only thing that happens is that we judge whether or not it violates some specific part of the bill of rights - which is a part of the document that would be superfluous if we followed the rest of the constitution.
Anyway, I’m not denying reality. The constitution is almost entirely tossed out the window. I’m just saying that people shouldn’t say “omg but that’s not constitutional!” about their pet issue as if it mattered.
That fact that 60 Democrats in the caucus is somehow not enough to steamroll pubbie stalling tactics DOES make it the Democrats’ fault.
What do you need, Harry? Seventy? Ninety?
-Joe
100, and the permission of their corporate financiers…
2004: The mean old GOP has a slim majority! We’re helpless before their might!
2006: The mean old GOP has a slim minority! We’re helpless before their might!
2008: The mean old GOP has a nearly record-setting minority! We’re helpless before their might.
Screw Reid.
-Joe
The Democrats have to steer a fine line between looking like they’re doing something to appease their base, while reassuring their insurance company benefactors that they’re not actually doing a whole lot to change anything, all smoke and mirrors.
The Republicans had it a little easier, given that their actual base was always much more interested in keeping down The Ghey and the feminazis and punishing sexual impurity, which meant that they could go ahead with the pro-corporate giveaways, tax cuts and wealth redistribution fairly openly.
Are you seriously arguing that this is ok? Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.
This type of corrupt governmental procedures needs to be stopped (for all parties Dio)
Brain Glutton said: "* 89 percent would forbid insurance companies from cutting off coverage after a person becomes sick;
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77 percent support providing subsidies so that low and middle-income American can buy insurance.
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83 percent would prohibit health insurance companies from refusing coverage based on a patient’s medical history.
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80 percent would prohibit health insurers from charging different rates based on a patient’s gender.
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84 percent would limit how much people can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses."
If as you say the other numbers are much lower in public opinion polls, why do they not FIX **THESE ISSUES **instead of going after something bigger and more risky?
So it’s Republican stalling tactics that are the problem? As you just pointed out, the Democrats have enough people to do anything they want and a Republican can’t stall it one bit.
The fact is, Reid is having a problem getting the Democrats to sign up. They can read polls like anyone else.
You can’t blame this on the Republicans, no matter how hard you try.
Come on - the republicans have run on a platform of obstructionism and lies. They’ve created the idea of death panels out of thin air and openly advocated the idea. Even if you want to play the poll numbers game, the polls are influenced by such scare tactics. They are far from blameless.
Because these issues are symptoms of a larger disease. It’s important to treat the disease, not the symptom; otherwise the only medicine doctors would prescribe would be morphene.
Correction: They can read campaign finance balance sheets like anyone else. To act like the Republicans and recalcitrant conservaDems are doing this to save their constituents from the EEEEBIL “socialized medicine” is disingenuous. They’re doing this because the medical insurance companies are offering them a LOT of campaign finance money to vote their way.
I wasn’t. Feel free to take of your Reagan X-Ray specs (now fortified with extra tax cuts!) and give reading a shot.
You kidding? The Republicans are always blameless. Plus, they’re going to get us to Mars! MARS!
-Joe