Will Meat Become Obsolete Some Day?

[msmith537]

Homer: What about pork?
Lisa: No
Homer: Bacon?
Lisa: NO!
Homer: Sausage?
Lisa: DAD! Those come from the SAME animal!
Homer: Oh SURE Lisa. There’s some MAGICAL animal that makes all that wonderous stuff.
Look. We aren’t going to get rid of meat production…ever. We aren’t going to eat “Meat by the Foot” or “I Can’t Believe it’s Not Meat” or any other artificial meat products unless we’re starving, there’s no actual animals to kill and it’s shipped to us by UNICEF while UN peacekeepers hold guns to our heads and force us to eat it.

Why? Because meat tastes good. I would rather eat a fillet from Angelo’s & Maxis or Sparks over a plate of alfalfa sprouts any day of the weak. I care not for the inferior creature that has so bravely made the supreme sacrifice so that I may enjoy a decent meal.

That and we big strapping meat-eaters would just kick the crap out of any skinny sprout eating hippy who would try to take it away from us.

[picker]

If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?

[Rashak_Mani]

Its more cultural than economic reasons that might eventually stop meat eating if nothing extreme happens. Still animals are darn useful creatures and we love leather products too. So all sort of animals will still be around… might as well eat them no ?

Overall I do agree meat isnt that good… but neither is working or having too much sex or candies. So I am not terribly worried about it. When meat starts tasting bad I will stop…

[yoyodyne]

I believe meat will someday be replaced by Soylent Green.

sorry, somebody had to say it

[Shade]

*Originally posted by JRDelirious *
**Hmm… I dunno about that, Shade. Any samples of anything “we’ve done for pretty much the entire existance of our species” (around 180K years for Homo Sapiens) that was AS nearly universal as eating animal flesh, and we’ve universally given up on? **

Being hunter gatherers? Raping cavewomen when the opportunity presents?

[Rashak_Mani]

Maybe we should discuss if meat eating is truly “backward” or not ? If we can let go of a part of our “ancestry” ?

Then why not let sex behind too ? Its so primitive and dirty…

Our ecological modern sensitivities certainly are tending against meat eating thou. Even thou I like meat... I eat less than I used to. Not sure I would cut it out completely. I do feel famished for a good steak once in a while... and for sex too.

[sghoul]

Shade,

There are still quite a few hunter/gatherers. And rape happens even in the most enlightened cuture.

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by Jim B. *
**
And if you eat it, you risk getting the germs, to say nothing of the chemicals, that animal once had. **

Often, meat is heated to temperatures that kill the germs and renders them harmless.

[Shade]

*Originally posted by sghoul *
**Shade,

There are still quite a few hunter/gatherers. And rape happens even in the most enlightened cuture. **

Sorry, I posted without thinking, perhaps. Maybe Bill was correct that there is ‘0’ chance that meat will become ‘obsolete’ but if it’s possible that it will become widely regarded as obscene, I think that’d be relevant.

IMHO that’d still be pretty unlikely, but as a vegetarian, I kind of hope.

[rjung]

*Originally posted by Achernar *
I’m thinking that the majority of meat-eaters would be willing to give up meat if we could come up with alternatives that are just as cheap, just as easy to work with, and taste just as good.

I was in Hong Kong a few weeks ago, and one of the tourist attractions they have out there is a Buddhist temple that’s next to the world’s biggest Buddha statue. Spent a few hours there with the family, taking pictures and doing touristy things.

Anyway, come around noontime, we went down to the temple’s cafeteria and had an all-vegetarian lunch. I don’t know what voodoo those temple cooks do, but they managed to turn seaweed, vegetables, and bean curd (tofu) into amazing replicas of chicken, pork, and fish cake, both in texture and flavor. Even a red-meat steak-eatin’ carnivore like myself was hard-pressed to tell it wasn’t real meat.

We’ve got viable alternatives to meat already(*); the trick is getting those Buddhist cooks into the culinary schools.

(* = No McDonalds jokes, please )

[Odesio]

*Originally posted by Jim B. *
**As I’ve said before, I am a vegetarian in principle, but a meat eater in actual practice (more on this later in this post).

**

Which means you’re not really a vegetarian at all?

**
Meat is unhealthy. It may not be as dietarily unhealthy as we once thought. But let’s face it, it comes from a living animal. And if you eat it, you risk getting the germs, to say nothing of the chemicals, that animal once had.

**

Why does the fact that meat comes from a living animal make it unhealthy? I’m exposed to germs from many sources other then meat. That’s what I have an auto-immune system for.

**
So is it possible, much like perhaps tobacco, meat will just be declared to unhealthy some day and outlawed on those grounds?

**

I seriously doubt it. I can’t think of one single human civilization that went without eating the flesh of animals. It is possible that it would simply be far to expensive to produce meat. Maybe we’ll switch to bugs instead or cloned cuts of meat.

Marc

[Master_Wang-Ka]

Considering the amazing things that Buddhist cooks and American food scientists are doing, I have no doubt that really tasty faux-meat dishes are possible.

If they are cheap, convenient, and tasty, people will buy them and eat them.

In real life… well… cheap, convenient, tasty. Pick any two.

Furthermore, there would need to be a pressing need for these food products to enter the market. Perhaps as our population gets more and more gonzo, we will do so… but, as a rule, R&D is not normally about making stuff cheaper, except perhaps cheaper for its manufacturer to produce. There would have to be a HUGE market for the stuff.

Cloning isn’t going to provide meat until we can bypass the middleman, so to speak. In order to clone an animal, we have to go through all this scientific procedure, and then stuff the clone embryo into ANOTHER animal, who then carries it to term.

This AIN’T cost-efficient, folks. Cheaper and easier simply to breed more animals. No, cloning isn’t going to compete until we perfect a functional, cheap, workable artificial womb, and even then, we’re going to need some way to exercise the animal in it. Most meat dishes are muscle tissue… and if you don’t work out in some way, you don’t develop much muscle tissue. Growing headless cows in tanks isn’t going to work, not until a LOT of technological knowhow has been applied to the situation… and it’ll still need to be cheaper than conventional cattle ranching.

Not less than fifty years, and perhaps not a hundred.

As to eating cloned human meat… man, I dunno. How would YOU feel knowing that your genetic template had provided a meat animal for… I dunno, Armour Meats, or somebody… and that a million Americans carved you up for dinner this evening?

In the words of Cerebus the Aardvark: “Only if game is scarce.”

[Leaper]

*Originally posted by MGibson *

---

Why does the fact that meat comes from a living animal make it unhealthy? **

When you start hearing news stories about people dying from Mad Carrot disease, let me know.

[DrDeth]

Plants are grwn in dirt, and dirt is all full of nasty bugs and gere, not to mention they spray plants with pesticides, which cause problems. There were a bunch of cases of poisonings out here from kids & dudes eating contaminated strawberries.

So yes, although there is no “mad carrot disease”, there are dangers in eating plants, too.

Meat is also GOOD FOR YOU. It is an excelent source of high grade protein, and a COMPLETE protein. It is also chock full of vitamins, including those rare or non-existant in plants (there is no plant source of Vit B12). Sure- eating TOO MUCH meat is bad for you. Eating TOO MUCH of a lot of things is bad for you, inlcuding plants. After all candy is not a meat product, nor is soda, nor are “chips” and these are likely the prime causes of obesity in the USA.

And see, Shade- thatis what is wrong with too many vegetarians. You “hope” that meat gets taken off the table. Why? I mean, sure, you don’t eat meat, and that doesn’t bother me. Why does what I eat bother YOU? Each to his own, tolerance.

Meat is also good because they can use land which is useless for agriculture to graze cattle & sheep on, thus increasing the food supply.

I think that vegtarianism will become more common, and meat eating less common. But it won’t go away in my lifetime.

[Malacandra]

*Originally posted by Dung Beetle *
**I stopped eating meat because of the terrifying environmental damage it causes. I think that will one day force meat-eating out of practice; of course, assuming we last that long. I don’t know how long it will take; it’s unimaginable that we’ve gotten away with so much already. Given my perception of human nature, I think we’ll go right on eating meat no matter what the cost. We’re stubborn like that. **

So far as the environment goes, it all depends. Growing grain has been known to cause some pretty terrible environmental damage too (dustbowl, anyone?) while you can graze useful amounts of meat animals on ground that’s pretty much useless for anything else - hill pastures and so on.

Of course you can raise grain purely to feed animals on, which is wasteful, but you can also just turn stock out on the range and let them harvest their own fodder at zero fuel cost, and even put manure back for you, also at zero fuel cost - so some meat farming can be positively good for the environment, not merely neutral.

[JRDelirious]

Ah, Shade, y’know, “kind of hoping” that meat-eating will “become regarded as obscene” is a recipe for disappointment. I mean, we can all figure out a scenario in which our current model for the use of animals for food becomes economically and ecologically unsustainable (you don’t feed 300 million Americans – or Europeans – at their current meat intake on free-range cattle and chicken: imagine if the whole planet were to decide they have a right to steak dinners…), AND suitable alternatives that are tasty, convenient and inexpensive become widely available and accesible. Under those circumstances, “real” meat would become something of an exotic “boutique” product and everyone would be on a much healthier diet. That does NOT require having meat-eating branded as something evil or immoral: all that does is inflame passions and make things harder on everyone.

[Shade]

*Originally posted by DrDeth *
And see, Shade- thatis what is wrong with too many vegetarians. You “hope” that meat gets taken off the table. Why? I mean, sure, you don’t eat meat, and that doesn’t bother me. Why does what I eat bother YOU? Each to his own, tolerance.

Because I think eating meat is wrong? Don’t be too hard on me - I’m not trying to forcably convert people (as tempting as it might be), I’m not even a particularly good vegetarian, but can’t I hope?

[Shade]

*Originally posted by JRDelirious *
**Ah, Shade, y’know, “kind of hoping” that meat-eating will “become regarded as obscene” is a recipe for disappointment. I mean, we can all figure out a scenario in which our current model for the use of animals for food becomes economically and ecologically unsustainable (you don’t feed 300 million Americans – or Europeans – at their current meat intake on free-range cattle and chicken: imagine if the whole planet were to decide they have a right to steak dinners…), AND suitable alternatives that are tasty, convenient and inexpensive become widely available and accesible. Under those circumstances, “real” meat would become something of an exotic “boutique” product and everyone would be on a much healthier diet. That does NOT require having meat-eating branded as something evil or immoral: all that does is inflame passions and make things harder on everyone. **

Wasn’t there a time when almost everyone in America thought there was nothing wrong with slavery? And then there was a complete reversal. I’m not saying eating meat is that bad, but there can be a moral reversals.

I’m aware vegetarianism isn’t likely to take off worldwide, (except as you point out, out of practicality), but religious people get to invisage everyone converting. As do the aforementioned abolitionists. Who decideds what apparently lost causes are good to fight for?

[Shade]

Sorry, am I coming across as the kooky hijacking vegetarian here? I try and avoid that…

[msmith537]

*Originally posted by Shade *
Wasn’t there a time when almost everyone in America thought there was nothing wrong with slavery? And then there was a complete reversal. I’m not saying eating meat is that bad, but there can be a moral reversals.
**

It’s just a stupid cow. Lighten up.