Hello. My wife is a vegetarian, while I am a meat eater. Uncharacteristically of her, she recently showed me a PETA pamphlet for new vegetarians that told about the apparently frequent practice of pulling stubborn cows out of trucks by tying their legs to a pole or tree and driving off with the cow yanked out viciously. It mentioned, as well, that pork meat producing plants will get the pigs to move along by using hooks to jab them in the eyes and rectum. It said chickens usually have their beaks sliced off with a hot knife while they’re still chicks and frequently die of shock from the pain. There were a few other HORRIBLE acts in this pamphlet and I realize that you have to consider the source. I’m sure the meat producing companies will site many humane aspects of the business. This is important to me, as we are in discussions as to how we will raise our children in the far future. If you could provide me with the skeptics view on this PETA info, I would appreciate it. I am well aware of the crazy things PETA does, but I would like to know how true or common these animal torture practices are. Thanks a bunch!
To quote Spock from Star Trek*, “We all feel on death.” Even vegetarians kill. I went vegetarian for a period, and I thought a lot about it. What is “life”? Is a potato any less alive than a cow? At what point does it become acceptable to take a life – any life? Do plants have feelings? If so, isn’t it wrong to snuff out their lives?
In the end, I decided that there is something called “life” that we humans can’t make. We can reproduce and we can cause other living things to reproduce, but we can’t take a bunch of chemicals and arrange them just so and make them live. Not even with a plant. Thus, I concluded that “life” is a thing that is possessed (obviously) by living things; whether they are plants or animals. If it is not wronf to kill a plant to eat it, then how can it be wrong to kill an animal for the same purpose? Besides, we are animals ourselves. Every living thing (including plants) competes to live. Weeds will kill grass by depriving it of nutrients, and replace your lawn with their own offspring. Why should humans be the exception among every other living thing?
I do not debate this with my vegetarian friends. They have thought about the issue and have come to different conclusions. One said, “You have to draw the line somewhere.” He drew the line at eating animals. Others will draw the line at eating or using any animal product; including eggs, milk, cheese, or leather. Still others are not true vegetarians, and will eat seafood. To each his own. I’ve made my decision, and I think it’s valid.
But there is still the issue of animal cruelty. I can’t answer the OP, since I do not work in that industry. But everything does its best to preserve itself. Other things do their best to kill them. Do the things int he pamphlet happen? I’m sure they do. Can they be stopped? Probably not. Even if you decide to forego meat, other people won’t, and these things will still occur.
Stressed animals taste bad. The goal is good tasting cows and pigs. Stress is generally minimized.
…It said chickens usually have their beaks sliced off with a hot knife while they’re still chicks and frequently die of shock from the pain.
The tip of the beak is sometimes (not always) cut off. Chickens will mutulate or kill weaker individuals if this is not done, so the goal is to prevent pain, not inflict it. However, the debeaking itself is probably painful and not without side effects, and it’s use is not universal. As you point out, PETA is not the most reliable source of information.
While people in the meat producing business may be cruel, so is nature. An neither is sadistic. Why would meat producers want to cause pain, especially if it makes more work (debeaking, or injuring a cow that then is going to be harder to handle)?
Everything that you have stated are either outdated practices <By decades> or isolated cases. Go ahead and eat your meat. Personally, I feel that if you can’t deal with the preparation, don’t eat the result. So if you’d not be able to bring yourself to kill a piggy, then don’t eat pork.
First of all, PETA is an ultra left-leaning and agenda-driven organization. You should be very skeptical of any “factual claims” made by them, in the same way you should be skeptical of claims made by the NRA.
It is a fact that an animal must be killed and processed before being cooked and consumed. The thing to keep in mind is that no method of death will satisfy the PETA crowd. It is not the manner of death that annoys them; they don’t want to kill animals for any reason. Period.
So here’s my advice: don’t get emotionally caught up in the PETA propaganda. Simply ask yourself whether it is morally right or wrong to eat animals. If you believe it is right, then go ahead and eat meat and do not be overly concerned about how animals are killed. If you believe it is wrong, then don’t eat meat.
Not necessarily. 
[sub]Actually, I meant for that to be a sick joke; but upon reflection I realize that crabs and lobsters are frequently not killed before cooking. Mmmmm… Tasty crustaceans![/sub]
If the argument is a person shouldn’t eat meat because animals are treated badly, that still allows you to eat meat when animals are treated well. If your wife doesn’t accept this, her argument really becomes it’s never acceptable to eat meat for whatever reason.
To continue with the main reason, animals are treated badly, you might want to consider how animals are treated in the natural world. Is getting killed by a lion or ripped apart by crocodile any better? The wild dogs of Africa can’t crush the throats of their prey; so they eat them alive. If you think that pamphlet is bad, try watching a pack of wild dogs eat an animal’s guts out while the animal pretty much has to sit there and watch.
The argument assumes that animal life is more valuable than plant life. If a person really wants to take the moral high ground, he should assume all life is precious and starve to death.
The argument assumes that your wife’s beliefs are more important than everyone else’s beliefs. You should be able to make up your own mind and act independently of her.
The argument assumes that parental responsibility is more important than the individual rights of children.
Maybe the kids want to eat meat.
If you were to drop dead without a burial, animals would eat your corpse. That’s not very ethical. You might was well get your shots in while you can.
Pork chops taste nummy!
Some will be curious that I agree with TheWolf. If you wouldn’t kill the pig yourself…
I’m a vegetarian. I didn’t decide to stop eating meat because of the cruelty, but for other reasons. Here are mine:
- It’s healthier. People who eat meat have much higher instances of colon cancer, Alzheimer’s and other senile dementia.
- “Tread lightly.” It takes fewer resources to produce a pound of vegetable protein than animal. I figure that 6 billion people are tromping heavily enough on the earth, let’s minimize it as much as possible.
- I’d like to believe that less killing happens because I don’t eat dead animals, but that’s open for debate.
Over all, make the decision–whichever way you decide–for your own reasons, not because someone else is pressuring you.
[Sorry for any typos, I’m typing without my glasses–they’re locked in the room where NoCoolSpouseName is wrapping presents.]
Somehow this sounds like more PETA propaganda. Are there any reputable studies that show such statistics?
It’s not nice to kill little animals, but all of nature is not nice. There is a beauty to the ugliness of nature. Eat meat.
Excellent point.
sadnil: Ask your wife this question: “Honey, if animals were ‘humanely’ killed, say by lethal injection or something, would it then be O.K. to eat them?”
I’m confident her answer will be “no.”
This will prove that the manner of death is not PETA’s real concern…
Can you give any examples of the NRA outright lying?
I’m curious about this. Given PETA’s history of extreme acts and my own support of the NRA, I’d like to know if the organization I enjoy a paid membership to is in any way comparable to PETA in actions.
That sounds like a huge load of cowshit to me. If you yank a cow out of a truck like that you are going to have a maimed cow that can’t walk, and then what?
It IS a load of shit. A few years back my ex’s parents owned a beef cattle ranch outside of Jacksonville florida. I worked there an entire summer processing beef, herding up the stock etc. It is hard to get them INTO the truck, not out of it. Once they see daylight they make for it.
As to the slaughter process, it’s really simple. The head were hearded up into a holding pen, which was large enough for forty cows. This was outside, and had plenty of food, water and shade in it as well. The ramp into the slaughterhouse was made just like the ramp to the truck that we used to move them from pasture to pasture. You lure the lead female, steer, or if you have one, bull, into the chute and the others line up to follow. Usually if you have a bull in front, you move him off and release him, ( he’s used for breeding and too valuable to slaughter). The cows are lead through a series of chutes that separate them into, (in this case) three kill slots. Once inside we usually fed them a treat to get them into the proper position. Once in the right place, the walls slide forward and keep the cow in place. The walls merely touch the sides of the animal and don’t constrict it at all. You get the bolt gun and pop 'em in the head. They ALWAYS dropped immediately: I can’t imagine that they felt any real pain. You tie a rope or chain to the rear legs and use the bobcat to drag them out of the slot to the butchering area. That’s it.
While that’s not the most pleasant thing in the world; and it was a small operation, there was NO tourture involved. The whole compound was designed to minimize stress on the valuable cattle. Larger commercial operations may not take as many pains to be so pleasant, but I find it hard to believe that anyone is deliberately torturing and stressing a valuable commodity.
Cheers!
My question is “what would nature have us do”? All you have to do is look at the teeth nature gave us. We are programed by nature to eat a varied diet including meat. You don’t need canines to munch on lettuce. There is nothing wrong with being a vetetarian or a carnavore but a varried diet is best. As far as I know{ up here in Canada at least} all slaughter houses have reps from the SPCA to watch over things and make sure the animals are not mistreated. By the way…PITA has become nothing but a terrorist organazion.
[offhand-but-relevant humor]
Why eat animals?
Because if God did not want us to eat animals, why did he make them of meat?
[/offhand-but-relevant humor]
Just goin’ for the funny, here, folks.
I’m sorry, but animals have no problems killing. If they can do it I can too.
Fact is a vegetable-only diet is okay but you better take supplements and you better eat animal products. Most people won’t be able to live off this diet and very few will thrive on a veggie-no-animal-products diet. Without supplements for vitamins and other trace stuff you’re not going to be all that healthy. Probably won’t notice but you will weaken your immune system.
I would think this would simply not be healthy at all for anyone but adults.
Fact is we’re the dominant species. Also I don’t think cows are horribly intelligent. The fact that its doubtful that animals are “self-aware” as we are. Religious people argue that animals have no souls. I hardly think its less cruel for us to kill the pig in a humane way than for it to get ripped apart by another animal. It’ll never die of old age because likely the other pigs will kill and eat it. Note that animals have no qualms about eating a live animal.
This is my main reason for being a vegetarian. Have you tried it? It’s really not so bad.
Ok guys this is the real reason for eating meat:
IN - N - OUT
Sex?