I know a lot of folks who are vegetarians. Many of them have chosen to eat this way because it is healthier, and this I understand completely, it is. There are others, however, that baffle me. These are the folks who refuse to eat meat because “it’s cruel to the animals”. I have never understood this attitude, it always has struck me as a manifestation of the same kind of thing as middle class white guilt, you know, people with the attitude “Oh, I’m so bad because I’m white and well-off, well-off white people have done terrible things!”. Here’s a clue: it wasn’t you, buddy, let it go. “I can’t eat poor animals, that’s so mean!” is the same thing. Humans are omnivorous, what is so bad about recognizing that? Sure, animals are raised to be slaughtered, but is this any worse than being run down in the wild and eaten alive by a wolf? I don’t think so. Some people just get wayyyyyy too wacky, like Paul and the late Linda McCartney, who would feed their carnivorous pet cats only non-meat based foods. Now it seems that they know better than God/Nature, who designed the cat to eat meat. Madness!
I do not mean these questions to be insulting or inflamitory, I am just honestly curious. Can any of the doper vegitarians help me understand?
Umm, you do realize that there’s a difference between feeling guilt about what people who lived hundreds of years earlier and happen to resemble you have done and feeling guilt over what you yourself are doing?
The fact that humans are naturally omnivorous is what’s known as the “naturalistic fallacy.” If we were to act like humans “naturally” act, we’d eat all our food raw and walk around naked.
Some people think that killing animals in order to eat them is cruel. And these are animals that would never exist if not for people wanting to eat them. It’s not like some cow would be wolf-food out in the wild if not for us kind humans slaughtering it.
While I am not as extreme as the people you mentionned (my dog eat meat dog food) I think that I might be able to help. While I am not vegetarian only for the cruelty to animals aspect (it is part of my religion) I can understand where it is coming from. Have you ever seen Harris Ranch, or somewhere like it? At Harris Ranch, the cows are crammed into a field, about three to a square meter, for as far as the eye can see. There cows are not living a happy life. They can hardly move, and they will definately be slaughtered.
You say that animals in the wild would just get hunted and eaten anyway, but animals in the wild have freedom before that happens. They also are not gaureenteed to die that way. Many an animal lives to a ripe old age. These animals do stand a chance.
Sorry, I’m not quite understanding. We are designed to eat meat as well as veggies. How is this a “naturalistic fallacy”? It just…is. And what does that have to do with how we dress or cook? That strikes me as a straw man.
You seem to be arguing that because humans are “designed” to eat meat, it’s illogical (or stupid, or whatever) to only eat veggies. This is fallacious arguing. By the same token, because sex is “designed” to lead to babies, homosexuality, birth control, and sex with sterile people are illogical.
The fact that our humanoid ancestors 2 million years ago ate both meat and veggies may just “be,” but when you use it as argument as to what we should eat today, it is fallacious.
Whether we are “designed” to eat meat or not is rather irrelevant to me (we weren’t “designed” to eat Peeps either, but we do, so obviously the design issue is a bit of a straw man, too.) We don’t need to eat it now. I have a choice now, for my meals: A) eat a meal that required an animal to be killed or B) eat a meal that didn’t. To me it’s a no-brainer.
Weirddave, you seem to have opened up a thread and I believe you will regret doing so in the near future.
I predict this thread will be filled with vegetarians sharing with us gruesome tales of the “Life of a Cow/Chicken/Sheep/Pig/Baby Lamb” in most horrific detail, and in the end Weirddave’s opinion will remain the same. Nothing will be accomplished with this bickering, because any argument or innocent question involving vegetarianism gets very ugly very fast.
You see, the first part of my last post started out as something else, but then I changed it to another thought but the wording sort of stayed the same. Allow me to fix it by saying, “Weirddave, you seem to have opened up a thread that may become very volatile, and I believe that you may regret doing so.”
Thank you everyone, this is what happens when you post without caffeine.
I agree with this, but we still need the nutrients that meat provides and I am not touching Tofu. Personal preference.
Now where as I know we were designed to eat meat, I believe we as a society, eat far too much of the damned stuff.
[sub]Besides, if God didn’t want us to eat animals, he wouldn’t have made them out of meat.
:: D&R ::[/sub]
If you eat a steak, a cow has died to provide it. If you eat a turnip, it has died as well. Why are animals inherently more worthy of not being killed than plants?
What gets me is vegitarians that don’t eat meat, because its cruel, still eat fish. Fish farms are just as cruel as other types of farm, I don’t see the reasoning there. They also eat eggs, and everyone knows about the terrible conditions in battery farms. Free range? see below.
One other thing. Not eating meat does not STOP the animals from suffering. I understand the idea of protest against it by boycotting meat, but you can still eat organic or free range meat, eggs etc. If they are properly organised with humane transport and painless slaughtering methods, I dont see the problem.
People who eat fish are not vegetarians. Last time I checked, a fish was not a vegetable.
I eat fish. I am not a vegetarian. Anyone that does eat fish and calls themselves a vegetarian is full of doo-doo.[sub](This is MPSIMS people.)[/sub]
Do not argue that a turnip is a sentient being, and worth inherently the same as an animal. There has been some wacky research about “Feeling Plants” and it has all been disproved.
If it makes it easier to understand, please try to picture going out to the dog house, and offing Rover, then roasting him and serving him up. Most people find this notion unappealing. Vegetarians apply this feeling to all animals. Easy. (At least I did when I was full on veggie. I don’t know why it doesn’t gross me out to eat fish anymore, but it doesn’t).
Weirddave, the belief that animals are more worthy of good treatment than plants is not a new one. I’m surprised that this seems to befuddle you.
Look at the recent BBQ thread where some kids took a cat and burned it to death. Many people were incensed. If those same kids had taken out a carrot and burned it I am willing to bet there would have been no pit thread.
Animals are more capable of feeling pain in the way us humans understand it than plants do. Also they are evolutionary closer to us and it seems a natural instinct for humans to feel more empathy for creatures / other human beings that are more closely related to them.
