So about 6 weeks ago I took the plunge and finally became a vegetarian. The animal ethics thing has never sat right with me, and it was only a set of practical issues (enjoyment of meat, not knowing many cooking recipes in general and so not wanting to limit my choices further, etc) that maintained the cognitive dissonance for so many years.
I’m not missing meat yet, but I am considering eating meat with family over Christmas and “coming out” afterwards. It feels too late to tell them with just a few days to go and have to make a lot of changes just for me (though I guess an option might be to bring a couple of veggie dishes myself…maybe I’m just trying to avoid the conversation…)
Anyway, there’s no point to this thread, just open discussion.
I didn’t know there was a word for it, but this is me. Basically, I eat very occasional meat for “medicinal purposes” . My qualms are more about its taste and texture than moral (though factory farms are evil).
Anyway, @Mijin, that sounds like a reasonable plan. And there’s nothing that says you have to fill your plate up with meat anyway. Being vegetarian is easier, in that you don’t have to police your food for any animal products. Surely there will be enough side dishes that fit the bill for you.
I have no ethical problem with eating meat or seafood. But over the years I’ve been more conscientious about my health, and have pretty much eschewed red meat. I can’t recall the last time I had steak, pork, or even a hamburger. But I still need protein, and will eat sliced turkey breast a few times a week, and a can of sardines or tuna a few times per week.
Not sure what this means: you don’t feel right about eating animals, or you don’t agree with the vegetarian / vegan viewpoint of animal ethics? Why do you you want to become vegetarian / vegan- is it for ethical or for health reasons; or a combination thereof?
If it’s purely for health reasons, I think the ‘flexitarian’ approach mentioned, at least for a time to ease you into it, is a good call. I don’t really believe that being 100% vegan is healthier than a sensible omnivore diet. I think the Asian approach is the most sensible. A former coworker was vegetarian and was married to a Chinese woman. He took a trip to China with her to visit her family, and he said that although they thought choosing to be being vegetarian as a lifestyle was strange, in actual practice they eat very little meat, using it more as a flavoring or just one ingredient of many, rather than as a main course. Ethical considerations aside, this seems to me to be the best nutritional practice overall.
Animals are treated appallingly in the high volume meat industry.
We may never know the degree of subjective experience that animals have, but they definitely appear to display the hallmarks of suffering, so I’d be willing to bet they are not p-zombies.
And a tasty meal for me does not justify their suffering.
Health reasons comes into it, but only a little: I am trying to cut weight right now, but I am under no illusions that becoming vegetarian means trivially eating fewer calories.
But I am trying to get out of the habit of expecting a big main meal every evening, which was tied into my desire for meat dishes.
Vegan can really work for you if you are trying to lose weight. Anything that tempts you, ask “Is this Vegan?” Almost always, the answer will be no.
You can still overeat, and even gain weight as a Vegan, but boy oh boy, you’d sure have to work at it!
I was Vegan for several years. I realized that if I didn’t want to center my diet around the various “fake” meats, I should look to the humble bean. I did a great deal of research, and I had a lot of fun, believe it or not!
I met the people who publish the e-zine “Vegetarians in Paradise.” Great folks! As I told them stories of my bean research, they invited me to be a guest writer for the e-zine. They even named my column, “Using Your Bean.”
I became a vegetarian several years back, mainly for ethical reasons. It was an easier transition for me as compared to what the typical person might face, probably because my sense of smell and taste had already been dulled by my stint in a chemical laboratory as well as by a couple bouts of pneumonia (or maybe it was the flu), so I didn’t miss the flavors of meat so much.
I decided not to go vegan though, because unless I was willing to chug protein shakes on a regular basis, it would have been too difficult to obtain the requisite amount of protein from purely plant-based foods. I do take iron supplements daily, and Vitamin B supplements occasionally, to compensate for the lack of those nutrients in my diet.
Mijin - I recall in your other posts you said you lived in China for a while, and I feel it’s easier to become a vegetarian if you’re already accustomed to the cuisine there which includes stir-fried vegetables, thick noodles, thin noodles, rice, tofu, all the assorted sauces and seasonings, I could go on and on. I certainly find those dishes more palatable than Western-style vegetarian fare.
Another great option if you’re a vegetarian is Indian food. A great number of Indian people are vegetarian for religious reasons, and there’s no shortage of delicious dishes like paneer / chickpeas / samosas / curries / combos of the previous things.
If you’re overeating a bunch of carb-rich foods like bread, noodles, or rice, it’s quite possible to become overweight even on a vegetarian diet. There’s no shortcut to losing weight — you have to train yourself to have a smaller appetite, exercise more, or ideally both.
I’m definitely going in that direction. Due to a medical issue (food allergies) it is exceedingly unlikely I will ever be fully vegetarian, much less vegan, but I like a lot of vegetarian food. That’s something some folks don’t get. I’m not “settling” for an all-veg dinner, I’m eating something I like and enjoy.
Alas, I’m back in the UK now, but you’re absolutely right.
It’s good for example that I experienced all the different tofu dishes, as prior to living there I had the typical Westerner’s image of tofu as something without either taste or texture, when in fact it has many different forms.
And even the standard soft tofu can taste pretty good when fresh.
And there are many spicy and/or sour sauces that go well with veggies, which is something a little bit lacking in Western cuisine (our spicy sauces tend to also be quite rich and so not go well with veggie-only dishes).
I agree, flexitarian is the best approach for me. You don’t want to be “THAT person” who can’t eat anything when invited over for a cookout. And a little B12 is a good thing.
I became a vegetarian about 2 years ago after mistakenly watching a 4-second video clip on Twitter.
Still miss the taste of a nice steak, but my partner has been vegetarian since age 11 and is a great cook, so that makes it much easier. Also, many of the plant-based substitutes are getting really good!
Not vegan yet, because of cheese.
I do agree that factory farming needs massive reform, if not a complete do-over. But the concept of animal husbandry or animal slaughter being evil is just stupid. Humans are natural predators, omnivores like bears. If a bear kills an elk and eats it, it is not evil. Even if a bear kills a human and eats him or her, we don’t consider the bear evil. Yeah, we’d kill that bear so it won’t kill humans again, but we don’t consider the bear evil. Killing to eat is natural.
As for animal husbandry, as long as it’s done humanely, there’s no evil there either. Believe me, if predators like lions had the mental capacity to herd wildebeest, they’d do it without agonizing over it.
I could never be a vegetarian. The most I could manage is this flexitarian thing which I gather means only occasionally eating meat. But I just prefer being an omnivore, meat every day, not necessarily at every meal. But yeah, lotsa meat.
It can be refuted by noting that many things that we now consider “good”, like basic hygiene, are unnatural.
And that some things considered “bad”, like grown-ass men hooking up with pubescent girls, are natural (or at least something humans have apparently done through most of our history).
There would have been a time and environment where humans needed meat to survive (like with your example of the bear).
That’s not the case in most of the world now, if anywhere, so it’s irrelevant to the dietary choices of a human in the modern world.
BTW I sympathize: for all the years I was eating meat, I tried to justify it to myself in various ways. If there’s a good argument, I haven’t heard it. Most people are against unnecessary suffering, so eating meat is “wrong” according to their own value system. But they are used to eating meat, enjoy it, and try to put the ethical side to the back of their minds.
Frankly, I wish people in general were less angsty about what other people do or don’t put in their mouths.
In reality, no one is going to burst in on your meal and yell “NO ONE EXPECTS THE FOOD DISH INQUISITION!” If someone chooses absolute adherence to vegetarianism or veganism well, that’s their choice but honestly if someone “cheats” from time to time I really don’t care, either that they do or the reason for it. If a vegetarian decides to nosh on a burger or slice of bacon or a vegan has a slice of diary-based cheese or whatever I don’t care.
Especially when someone first makes the choice to be [fill in the blank] the rest of world should really back off and not worry about the details. Granted the vast majority of us actually are that laid back but we’ve all experienced people coming out of the wood work who just have to get in the person’s face and be an obnoxious jerk.
You’ve never encountered the situation where a guest has to ask questions about what went into every dish? And/or instead of just filling up on a salad or whatever they feel they can eat, making comments throughout the meal?
Hell - I don’t eat eggs. Recently went to a brunch, where the big dish was quiche. So I said nothing and simply loaded up on fruit (and cookies!)
Admittedly, I do often wind up asking a lot about ingredients, but as I said, I have a medical problem. But after that, I don’t make it a main topic of the meal. I eat what I can and pass on the rest with no comment.
What gets me are people who relentlessly quiz me about my diet - seriously, it’s a medical issue and you aren’t entitled to the details. Even worse are the people who try to sneak things or trick me into eating what I shouldn’t. Absolutely that is wrong, and I don’t care what the reason is - don’t give allergens to someone allergic, don’t sneak sugar (in any form) into a diabetic’s food, don’t put bacon in the meal of a Jewish or Muslim person, don’t put meat into the vegan’s soup, don’t swap gluten-containing bread for the celiac sufferer’s gluten-free dinner rolls, don’t put broccoli in President Bush’s salad.
If I’m uncertain about the meal I’ll bring a dish of my own so I am sure there is something I can eat. The only time that’s a problem is when going to the home of someone keeps kosher or the like, but there are workarounds even for that.
My practice is to (if I think of it) ask if there are any foods they CAN’T eat. Or failing that, to have alternative dishes, so if someone doesn’t like/can’t-won’t eat one, they can fill up on something else.
My 2 biggest problems with this were w/ Jews - unthinkingly adding bacon, and putting cheese on burgers.
If I had some food issues and any uncertainty, I’d definitely not show up places starving!
. My qualms are more about its taste and texture than moral (though factory farms are evil).